there except by writing; privately or publicly? A man of his talents would have nothing to do with the drudgery of a merchant's office. He knew what the cacoethes scribendi was and he was perfectly convinced, that a clever man, who once commenced author, could not avoid writing. With respect to the captains who offered to give Mr. Arnott a free passage, he supposed they belonged to free traders. He knew that it was a great point with those gentlemen to bring the Company's government into contempt, and therefore they would willingly take out or bring home any person who had pursued the same object. The men in the city whom the press had injured were those, he might be allowed to observe, who had saved the country from despotism-who had saved it from the power of Bonaparte. (Order, order!) Aye, whenever he mentioned Bonaparte, the friends of freedom became offended. They would argue, of course, that his was a very wild despotism. He was himself an old Whig, in the true sense of the word; (Laughter) but he separated from those who called themselves Whigs, because he could not, in the same breath, drink the principles which placed the House of Brunswick on the throne of these realms, and also the principles which seated Bonaparte on the throne of France. Many persons talked of liberty, who did not seem to understand what true liberty was; but, after they had for years advocated the principles of such a man as Bonaparte, who was as great a tyrant as ever lived, could any one place the least confidence in their opinions? He was afraid, if the liberty of the press were granted, that it would introduce Bonaparte, quite as dangerous to India as the original had been to Europe. He called on the Directors, as they wished for the salvation of that country-as they wished for the salvation of their servants there and here-as they wished for the salvation of the whole body of proprietorsto act in such a way as would prevent the liberty of the press, and its unavoidable consequences, an Indian Bonaparte, being introduced into their Eastern dominions.

a

Capt. Maxfield observed, that the hon. proprietor who had just sat down had adverted to the delusion which the press had practised on the public mind, with respect to joint-stock companies in this country. Now he begged leave to say, that their Indian press, fettered as it was in every other respect, had put forth the prospectus of a joint-stock company in India, which it highly praised. It was, it appeared, under the direction of (we understood) Mr. Trotter, and received the support and approbation of the government abroad. He should like to know whether it was also sanctioned by the Court of Directors?

Mr. Lowndes knew of no other jointstock company in India except the India Company.

The

Mr. Gahagan hoped the Chairman would not answer the question which had just been put to him, and which was equally out of time and place. What, he asked, had joint stock companies to do with Mr. Arnott? As to the propriety of granting compensation to Mr. Arnott, he concurred entirely in the observation of his hon. friend (Mr. Hume); Mr. Arnott had been most cruelly treated. wretched executioner at Newgate, brute as he was, let the poor sufferer depart from this world with as little pain as possible; but here they found a noble Lord persecuting this unfortunate gentleman, and inflicting the severest vengeance on him. Good God! Surely, if it were deemed necessary to send him away, it ought to have been done in the most humane manner; but instead of that, he was seized and put on board a ship which was to proceed, not directly to Eu-rope, but was, in the first instance, to stop at Bencoolen. This was the treatment he received; and therefore he (Mr. G.). would grant this remuneration without any reference to the question of the press. He was very sorry that his learned friend (Mr. Jackson) had introduced that topic at all, since it had led to that loose conversation, in the course of which, and the hon. proprietor (Mr. Lowndes) would. pardon him for saying so, he had spoken a great deal of nonsense. (Hear!)

Mr. Lowndes said it was impossible for. him to speak sense, when he was alluding to a parcel of nonsensical companies. (Spoke, spoke!) He did not care whom it displeased he would always expose villany; he had a right to express his astonishment at the conduct of the person to whom he had alluded, when he saw, him endeavouring to crush the pawnbrokers. That man had the outward and visible sign of humanity, without the internal and spiritual feeling.

Mr. R. Jackson said, the documents to to which his hon. friends had alluded were: not before the court; but if the tale of distress and misfortune which they had. related were correct, it was still open to the proprietors, when the papers were produced, to investigate it, and, if necessary, to punish. Still, however, he looked. upon the resolution, as framed by the Di-. rectors, to be a very proper one. They, had the papers before them, and in their report they said that, "in the month of December 1823, Mr. Arnott was sent on board the Fame, at Calcutta, which was proceeding to England via Bencoolen. On the 2d of February the vessel was destroyed by fire, and he lost the whole of his property by that disaster. He was obliged to return, in consequence, to Calcutta,

cutta, which entailed on him a considerable additional expense. Under these circumstances, and in consideration of his severe losses by the destruction of the ship Fame, the court recommend it to the Court of Proprietors to compensate him, for the present, with a grant of £1,500." Here it was allowed that investigation might yet take place, at the same time that compensation was provided for the misfortune which Mr. Arnott had encountered; and it was still open to the Court of Proprietors to canvass the whole matter, when the papers were before them. Inasmuch as there was question connected with the resolution but the limited one of compensation for losses sustained under peculiar circumstances, he had strictly confined himself to that, without attempting to inculpate any person.

no

Mr. Hume said, some of the documents which were open to view, shewed that Mr. Arnott had been most harshly treated. In one of these he exclaimed, in the agony of his heart, "Gracious God! what have I done that all this vengeance should be poured on me!"

The Chairman.-After what had been said, it became necessary for him to offer a few words. It appeared that an unlicensed person had been removed from India by the Governor-General, under the power which he possessed by law; and it came to be considered whether that removal was effected in the most convenient manner. It was felt that it might have been effected in a manner more convenient. Mr. Arnott, it seemed, was put on board the vessel commanded by Capt. Young (he gave the name, as the hon. proprietor, Mr. Lowndes, had demanded it), who sailed for Bencoolen; that vessel was burned-a contingency to which all vessels were liable, and for which Lord Amherst could in no way be deemed answerable. In consequence of the losses and sufferings of Mr. Arnott, the Court of Directors, feeling deeply for his situation, came to the resolution of recommending that a compensation should be granted to him. He was not acquainted with that individual, but he took very great pains to inquire into the circumstances of his case, and he thought it was one that was worthy of relief. The Court of Directors had, in his opinion, acted very properly, in coming to the resolution of bestowing on him this sum as a compensation for the inconvenience, suffering, and distress which he had endured. He, for one, agreed to the grant with all his heart.

The motion for confirming the resolution of the General Court of the 28th of September, approving of the grant of £1,500 to Mr. Arnott, was then agreed to unanimously.

INSTRUCTION IN HINDOOSTANNEE.

The Chairman said, that at the last General Court an hon. proprietor (General Thornton) had given notice that he would this day move a resolution relative to the propriety of granting instruction in the Hindoostannee language to persons proceeding to India in certain capacities, since which a letter had been addressed to the Court of Directors, signed by two proprietors, requesting that the court should be made special for the purpose of taking the same subject into consideration. Perhaps it would save the time of the court if the two motions were merged into one, and thus debated.

Mr. Hume said, he wished the two motions to be kept separate.

The Chairman had no objection. He only threw out the suggestion to save time, as the two questions were so nearly alike.

General Thornton wished, as the new notice had been given by two proprietors who had been in India, who were therefore better judges of the subject, and could bring the question forward more advantageously than he could,-to withdraw the notice which he had previously given -(Hear!)

The Chairman heartily concurred in what had fallen from the hon. proprietor, and felt obliged to him for saving the time of the court.

THE COMPANY'S SHIPPING. The Chairman said, another hon. proprietor (Captain Maxfield) had, at the last General Court, given notice that he would on this day submit a motion for papers relative to the rates of tonnage for the Company's chartered and unchartered ships to India and China, together with the mode of auditing and keeping the accounts. The Court was now prepared to entertain the motion.

Capt. Maxfield said, the motion of which he originally gave notice embraced two objects, the rates of tonnage of the ships employed by the Company, and the mode of auditing and keeping the accounts; but he would, for the sake of brevity and distinctness, confine himself to the shipping question only. In addressing the court on a subject of such deep importance, embracing so many great interests, he regretted that the task had not fallen to the lot of some other person more able than he was to expose the defects of the present system, and better calculated to introduce a plan more useful and beneficial to the public and the Company; and, by that means, to avoid, on the renewal of the Company's charter, the opposition of those individuals who felt themselves injured by the system as it now stood. He was induced to agitate this subject, that other gentlemen might be led to aid him in this

important

important inquiry, and that, by their joint efforts, they might produce those advantages which were so much to be desired. It had been so much the custom to laud the Company's servants, that he scarcely expected a patient hearing, if he in the slightest degree expressed a doubt of their capacity. The interest of many, and the indolence of more, tended to operate against an investigation of this nature, from the feeling that nothing could be done, connected with this subject, that would at all increase their dividends: therefore, no operation had taken place for the purpose of ascertaining what really could be effected. If he had but one vote in that court, he might be thought presumptuous in bringing forward so momentous a question; but he had long been a proprietor possessing three votes, and a short time since he had sufficient stock to entitle him to a fourth. He stated this to shew that his interests were deeply concerned, and closely identified with those of the proprietors at large. He had nothing to do with the shipping interest, and most probably never would, but still he felt a strong concern for the shipping interest of the Company; and he would, if possible, so ameliorate the system as to render it highly beneficial. They were, at present, engaged in an unprofitable war, and he knew not how it would pay them. If that war were to terminate at the present hour, the expense already incurred was such as to render it imperiously necessary to retrench in every possible way, without impairing those establishments which were of essential importance to the Company. He might be told that economy had always been adopted: he believed so-but it was sometimes pursued where it was least useful; where it could not be carried on without impairing the efficiency of important establishments: he meant particularly in the army. · He did not intend to illustrate this position by an invidious comparison of the scale of pay and pension for the civil and military service; but, at a future time, he would perhaps call the attention of the court to that point. At present, he offered himself to assist the court in the laudable object of economising in those departments where it could be done with safety. The absurd attempts made by some of the governments abroad, to economize improperly, either from the orders of the. Court of Directors, or trough the officiousness of servants, had often produced mischievous effects. For instance, their most respectable superintendant of marine at Bombay had allowed the Company's cruizers to be let out, which produced the enormous sum of 150 rupees. This did not occur under their present amiable, able, and intelligent governor; but it really did happen in the time of Sir Evan Nepean. One of their cruisers, Asiatic Journ. VOL. XXI. No. 121.

the Vestal, was so stuffed with bales, by an -Armenian merchant, that she had scarcely room for provisions and stores; for the use of that vessel the Bombay Government received the sum of 150 rupees. The only two cruisers in the Company's service which were employed in making an impression on the pirates in the Persian Gulf had been disposed of. And what was the consequence? It còst 150 lacs of rupees, or £1,800,000 to check the growth of those pirates. The interest of that sum, if properly applied, was enough effectually to have put down bands of much greater magnitude. In the infancy of the Company's concerns, the Dutch, the Portuguese, and other freebooters, opposed and attacked their trade, but the Company armed their trading vessels and protected themselves. Those ships, while they maintained only the respectable character of merchants, answered every purpose. A great change had since taken place, and they now ap peared in the more elevated character of sovereigns. It was generally believed, that they carried on a losing trade with India. He could not substantiate that position, with reference to one year-but if a series of years were taken, they would afford sufficient evidence to prove the fact. As a company of merchants, expressly incorporated for commercial purposes, they must either carry on their trade as merchants would do, or lose the mercantile character in the character of rulers. individual merchant could prosecute the India trade as the Company did, with high freights and bad bargains; and the Company themselves could not carry it on, if it were not bolstered up by the profitable trade to China. He admitted that the import trade to China was one of high profit-but he was convinced that it might be made much more so, and at the same time a great benefit be conferred on the public, by enabling them to purchase tea at a moderate price. If this were done, it would form a very good reason for the renewal of the Company's charter, and for their retaining the exclusive trade to China; because it would shew, that the Company considered the public interests as much as their own. But to effect this, they must not conduct themselves as they had done heretofore. Let their ships go forth as merchantmen, and as merchantmen alone. He entertained the highest opinion of the ability and talent of the officers on board the Company's ships-and the ships themselves were of a fine class-but he did not think they were so suitable for commercial purposes. guns, which were occasionally used in time of war, greatly increased the expense of outfit; and, where those vessels carried forty guns, it was quite clear that the number of men bore no proportion to the number

Q

No

The

number of guns. He had been, induced to attribute the loss of many of the Company's ships solely to the number of guns they had on board. The hon. proprietor proceeded to exemplify his position, by adverting to ships belonging to the Company which had been lost in severe gales, which the country vessels had safely weathered since there were several country ships in those gales which proved so disastrous to the Company's vessels, but not to the others, he came to this clear conclusion, that the guns were the great cause of mischief. The Devonshire Indiaman was lost some years ago solely by having those guns on board. At the time he descried her, he was lying above her in one of those miserable pattan schooners. The gale was a regular north-wester, and gave notice of its approach an hour before it burst out. The vessel in which he was rode out the gale in safety, and they saw the stately Devonshire, with her guns and lofty masts, sink to the bottom. This was

sufficient to shew him the mischief of carrying a large number of guns on board those vessels. Then came the question, "what degree of advantage do you derive from this system, in a commercial point of view, by securing a more moderate rate of insurance ?" An answer to that query would be found by inspecting the rates of insurance at Lloyd's. If they examined those rates, they would find that goods imported in well-built British ships, of class A, were insured for as little as those carried on board the Company's large ships. The argument, then, made directly against those who were in favour of the latter. The useless expense of outfit in the Company's ships was bad, both for the Company and the British public-because it prevented the Company from selling East-India produce at a moderate price; and of course the Americans and other traders were able to beat them in the foreign market During war, some of the Company's ships were taken up at the exorbitant rate of £44. per ton: and yet the Court must be aware, that, in coming from Bombay, they were not more than one-third laden; the rest of the freight became a vast source of emolument to the commanders. He understood, how ever, that this systein did not now prevail. At one time, when anti-commercial notions were prevalent at Bombay, the Company received a large consignment of cottons. Was it not to be supposed that part of that consignment would be sold to the Chinese for tea? Instead of that, however, it was sold to the commanders of certain ships, to be paid for at China. The commanders carried the commodity thither on board the Company's ships, and absolutely undersold them in the market. Even at that time, when this error was committed, vessels were carrying

out despatches, ordering retrenchment and economy in the military department. Since the peace, the rate of freight had been considerably reduced; but it was clear to him that a still greater reduction might be effected, and that the commerce of the Company might be carried on like the commerce of any other body of commer cial people. He saw no advantage that Iwas derived from the mode in which their marine affairs were at present conducted. It was quite evident, from what he had said, that he did not entertain the best idea of the principles on which their marine and commercial affairs proceededand twenty-four years' service in their marine had given him a sufficient opportunity to understand these subjects. The excellence of the Company's army in India was owing to the praiseworthy zeal of some of the hon. Chairman's colleagues, to the fostering care of the late Lord Meiville, and the judicious conduct of the Duke of York. The army deserved to be noticed with approbation; but he must say, that a part of the Company's service was so mismanaged, as to render it a useless burden to the state, and a disgrace to those who should supervise it : he alluded particularly to the Bombay marine. He might be told that it was too insignificant to require notice; but when he saw a superintendant receiving upwards of a lac of rupees per annum, a salary larger than that given to a first lord of the admiralty, he thought it was a subject worthy of notice. The navy ought to be cherished in every part of the British do minion; it was the dread of our enemies, the bulwark of the country, and the admiration of the world. He well recollected that it was said, at the period of the re newal of the charter, that this insignificant corps, the Bombay marine, was every way sufficient for guarding the coast; and that therefore the Company should not be charged for the service of any of the king's vessels in those seas. Such was the inconsistency of those who would not exert themselves to reform the system. The customs, the revenue, and the judicial branches of their service loudly demanded revision. When the errors in these were considered, astonishment would cease at the bad system on which their marine affairs and commercial transactions were conducted. The observations to which he had called the attention of the court, were, he conceived, of the utmost importance; and, however sanguine he might be deemed, he thought that, by retrenching. the lavish expenditure at China, a saving, not of 150 rupees, but of three or £400,000 per annum, might be effected. He should detain the court no farther, but would at once submit the following motion:

"That there be laid before this court a statement, exhibiting the name, number,

and

and tonnage, of all ships now chartered by this company; with the rates of tonnage, the number of voyages for which they are engaged, the names of the owners, and the time when engaged :—also a list of ships of the Company purchased for India and China, stating the time when purchased, the price paid for them, and the expense of repairs, &c."

He

Mr. Hume rose to second the motion. He was proud to say, that the father of his hon. friend near him, and his learned friend (Mr. R. Jackson), had exerted themselves in the same cause, and had reformed the shipping system, though it was still defective, and made it what it was. He too had exerted himself in endeavouring to alter the ruinous system which had so long prevailed. He had not, at that time, the honour of a seat in parliament; but, in conjunction with others, he petitioned the legislature on the subject. In that petition they stated reasons for a reform, which he looked upon to be quite unanswerable. Their petition was however unsuccessful. He did not think that parliament, on that occasion, acted either for the interest of the East-India Company or of the empire at large, which were closely connected with each other. conceived, that, when the country was called on to pay a large tax on tea, for the purpose of keeping up useless extrava gance, all those proprietors who supported such a system were to blame. If the hon. proprietor had been in the court in 1813, 1816, and 1817, when he (Mr. Hume) wished to check the amount proposed to be paid to owners of ships who complained of having made losing contracts, he would have seen the strong necessity which existed for remodelling the shipping system. Parliament was at that time applied to, and they gave leave to the Company to pay the increased rates that were demanded. Instead of contending that owners should go on making contracts that were likely to lead to their utter ruin, he said, "Reduce your equipments—and then they can proceed with profit to themselves and benefit to the Company." His advice was however overruled; and if the hon. proprietor had been in the court at that time, he would have found the majority to be either ship-owners or shipbuilders. He made the best exertion he could, with a few friends who surrounded him, to expose the evil, but his effort was not attended with success. If any thing could rise up in judgment against the Company, it was their lavish expenditure in freight. They were paying enormous sums for freight, when it could ordinarily be procured for 10, 11, or £12 per ton. In 1813 he stood up in that court and said, "If we have peace, the rate of freight will fall to £12 per ton." He was, in consequence, considered as an enthu

.

siast, as a man almost beside himself: yet, strange to say, that which he had prophecied had been perfectly fulfilled. As the hon. Proprietor had said, the Company took to themselves a great deal of credit for good management: but where was the good management in taking up ships at the rate of £26. 5s. per ton, not for three voyages, but for five or six voyages, which was equal to ten years? And yet this had occurred at no very remote period. What did the Company do last year? He had not the minutes to refer to -but he believed they had hired vessels in London, sent them to China, and loaded them with tea, which was carried out to North America, at the rate of £11 per ton, while they were actually paying £26. 5s. per ton, under some of their other contracts. He had formerly shewn that, in the course of the war, no less than £50 and £55 per ton had been paid. This was partly on account of demurrage, which indeed was sometimes unavoidable, in consequence of the system pursued.

Mr. Walker wished to set the hon. Proprietor right upon one point. In the year 1819, which was six years ago, none of the Company's ships were taken up at so high a rate as £26. 5s. In 1823, there one at £21; another at £21. 8s; and a third at £21. 7s. 6d.

was

Mr. Hume was glad to find that there was an improvement even of a few pounds. But still he could not help remarking that last year ships could be procured at the rate of £9. 10s. per ton, while the Company were paying £21.

The Chairman said, the hon. proprietor, in submitting this motion, had gone over a great space of ground, over which he would not attempt to follow him. This was a subject which had been much considered. If any subject had been more discussed than another in the Court of Proprietors, that subject was the present: and he believed it would be found, looking to the East-India Company as acting in their double capacity, that the description of ships alluded to by the hon. proprietor, and disapproved of by him, was the most applicable to their peculiar service. As, however, he was anxious that the proprietors should have the fullest information on this subject, he would not resist the motion. (Hear!) He would only observe, that there was much and very important employment for the officers in that house, from which they would be taken while making out the accounts required. It was of little importance to him whether he was occupied in that, or any other room of the India-House; but he felt it his duty to state, that the production of those papers would withdraw many officers from the execution of very important business. Nevertheless he would agree to the motion.

Mr. Hume said, that the object of the