House to watch over those finances with | estimate for this year was 6,602,1337.; extreme jealousy; for it must be obvious for 1821, it was 6,643,000l. But what, notto all, that if the government went on withstanding the opposition of the councrippling the resources of the empire as try gentlemen, did the House do that they were doing at present, England must session? On the 27th of June they uncease to have that commanding influence animously voted an address to his majesty, as a nation, which she had so long and so praying "That his majesty will be gra justly possessed. The committee of 1817 ciously pleased to direct, that every posstated, in their second report, that it was sible saving which can be made without only by adhering to a rigid system of re- detriment to the public interest, shall be trenchment and economy during peace, effected in those more extended establishthat this country would be enabled suc- ments which the country is obliged to maincessfully to encounter a period of warfare, tain for the safety and defence of the should circumstances render it necessary United Kingdom and its dependencies; that recourse should be had to hostilities; and more especially in the military expenand therefore they recommended the utmost diture, by a reduction in the numbers of economy in all disbursements of the pub- the army, and by a constant and vigilant lic money, as essentially necessary to the superintendance over that and all the substantial benefit of the country. In- other departments connected with the apdeed, every part of the different reports plication of the ample supplies granted by of the committee was directed to the same this House." This was an amendment to object. In every sentence they pressed a motion of his own, in substance the same, on the House as powerfully as they could moved by Mr. Bankes. Ministers had, do, the necessity of bringing down the to the last moment, resisted every attempt military establishment as nearly as pos- at retrenchment, until, at the close of sible to the standard of 1792. The noble the session, the pressure of distress was lord had drawn the attention of the House so great, that the country gentlemen to the estimate of last year; and his gal- turned round and said, that something lant friend (col. Davies) had very pro- should be done. Ministers then yielded, perly observed, that it was not fair in the but with a bad grace, merely to relieve noble lord to confine his view to the last themselves from the disagreeable situation year's estimate, instead of going back to in which they would have been placed, that period when the House peremptorily had his motion been carried, as it cer called on ministers to cut down the ex- tainly would in spite of them, if the sense penses of the country. This was done in of the House had been taken on it. They 1821, when distress bore heavy on the got the hon. member whom he had just country, as it did at present; though it mentioned, to move an amendment in did not weigh quite so heavy at this mo- effect the same as the original motion, ment on the landed proprietors as he which was unanimously carried. What thought it would do in the course of a few was the result of that unanimous address? months. At that period the noble mem--an immediate reduction in the army, ber for Yorkshire gave the landed proprietors a little good advice, but they would not take it; and they pursued the most absurd course that any set of men ever adopted. When attempts were made at that time, to bring down those establishments to their proper scale, the country gentlemen refused to give their assistance in effecting that desirable object. They voted for the continuance of those extravagant establishments; and then, with the most extraordinary inconsistency, they turned round, and called for the reduction of those very establishments in favour of which they had previously raised their voices. The estimate which the noble lord now presented amounted exactly to within 41,000l. of that which he submitted to the House in 1821. The and that, notwithstanding the noble lord, then the ministerial leader in that House, having said, a few months before, that they could not carry on the service of the country, if the wheels of government were clogged by any reduction. A reduction, however, in every department soon took place, and the following year, in the army, navy, and ordnance, there was a reduction of a million and a half. In 1821, the army amounted to 81,100 men the expense of which was 6,643,9681. The next year it was 61,820 men, making a reduction, in one year, of nearly 20,000 men. This number was then sufficient for all the services of the country, and why not to-day? The expense in 1822 was 6,103,0691. making a difference of expenditure for the army alone, between awed by a military power, daily swelled the two years, of more than 500,000l. besides the commissariat, building of bar-in proportion as the public grievances racks, and all the other incidental expenses were aggravated. The existing enormous which attend the maintenance of an army. amount of taxation was a great and crying In 1823, the army was 59,100, the esti- evil; and, in order to remedy it, it was mates for which were 6,087,398. Un- only necessary to lessen the expense of fortunately, about this period, the price of the public establishments.-After noticing corn advanced, affairs wore a more cheer-cursorily the sinking fund, as it was termed, ful aspect, the poor were better employed, but which added only to the general and ministers did not lose the opportunity weight which the nation had to sustain, of augmenting the military establishments. the hon. member asserted, that taxes to Year after year, since then, the numbers the extent of four or five millions might had been swelled, and the expense in- be abolished, without detriment or incon'creased; in 1824, the number of men was venience. The relief thus given would 73,000, and in 1825, 86,438. He en- be felt by high and low, rich and poor; treated the committee to attend to the rea- and those only would be injured whose sons assigned for this enormous addition. emoluments depended upon maintaining The principal reason which had induced the existing system upon its present exhon. gentlemen to vote for the estimates travagant scale. He could contemplate was the then condition of Ireland, and nothing more grateful to the ministers of the state of some of our colonies; but, he a great and free country, than the task of believed, that, of the troops destined to dispensing such important benefits. At proceed thither, not one-fifth had been present, the government was restrained in actually sent out. The effect, therefore, its operations by being, as it were, screwed was, that the standing force in the coun-up between income and expenditure, betry was considerably enlarged, and with a militia, to the amount he had already stated. As to Ireland, it was no longer pretended that any additional troops were rendered necessary by her condition. The precise state of the present establishment, then, was as follows:-32,670 men were to remain in Great Britain, and 32,194 men in the colonies, being an increase of nearly 4,000 men. The force in Ireland was to consist of 21,900 men. If, how-not be pretended that there was any such ever, in 1792, an army of 17,000 men change in the external or internal circumwas deemed adequate to the service of stances of the country, as to warrant now Great Britain, what possible reason could what had been condemned. He would not be urged for now raising the force to now enter into any details respecting the nearly double that amount? Besides, it items, which could be discussed as they proought to be recollected, that at the pre-ceeded. In the speeches from the Throne, sent moment the militia and the yeomanry corps were much larger than in 1792. cause the account was so nicely balanced by their anxiety to spend, and the desire of parliament to control. To remove taxes liberally would set ministers free, and make the people happy. He was anxious to press upon the committee the necessity for economy, because the establishments now were as large as they were in 1822, when the House had voted unanimously that they ought to be reduced; and it could attention to economy had been pressed almost ridiculously; for he could apply to It had been stated three years ago, by it no other epithet, when, year after year, the chancellor of the Exchequer, that it the House was told that retrenchment was necessary to keep a counterpoise to would be attempted, and the only result the increasing power of the people; that was, that year after year the estimates the influence of the Crown ought not to were increased. It was fit that the House be decreased, because it formed a whole- of Commons, disregarding mere words, some check to the influence of the peo- should, by its actions, show that it ple. If, however, ministers would di- was in earnest, and compel ministers to minish taxation; and, by relieving oppres- give relief to a patient and long-suffering sive burthens, make all classes contented, people. He could not employ on this they would find no such check necessary. subject more forcible or more appropriate A larger standing army was only re- expressions than those of the finance comquired because government was resolved mittee of 1817, and he had therefore to do nothing to conciliate the great body adopted them in the amendment which of the nation. Hence it was that the he now offered to the resolution of the people were to be controlled and over-noble lord. It was in these terms: it is expedient, in the present circumstances of the country, to make a large reduction in the amount of the expenditure for the military establishment, and to approximate, as soon and as nearly as possible, to the establishment of the year 1792, as recommended by the Finance committee of 1817, and in their second report, in the following words :-" Your committee, in making a reference to the year 1792, desire to call the notice of the House to the low establishments of the latter part of that year, which were deemed sufficient for all national purposes at that time, in the contemplation of a long continuance of peace; and, although many circumstances are materially changed by events which have subsequently taken place, so as to prevent any exact parallel from being drawn between the two cases, especially in the amount of pecuniary charge, yet they submit, that as near an approximation to that low scale of establishment and expense as may be found consistent with our more extended possessions, and with the augmented rates of various fixed disbursements, would be highly advantageous in relieving the burthens and in supporting the public credit of the country." re "That in the opinion of this committee, just and sound-then it followed, that ministers had acquiesced in the recom mendation contained in the resolution of the hon. member. The hon. member had made the report of the committee of 1817 a very convenient instrument of debate. He had used it, on all occasions, as best suited his purpose; and he had not always treated that committee with the respect and deference which he had displayed on the present occasion. If the hon. member would take the trouble of looking at what that committee had estimated as the probable prospective expense of the military department, he would find, that the amount now called for fell considerably short of that estimate. In the report, 8,500,000%. was set forth as the prospective expense, including 300,000l. for the expense of the militia. The hon. gentleman had peatedly stated, that, if his recommendations had been attended to, government would by this time have reduced the expenses of all the establishments full one half. Now, if the House would look at the whole of these estimates, they would see that about one half of the charges were ascribable to the effective part of the establishment; the other half to the liquidation of half-pay, pensions, and other charges, which were of a nature not in Lord Palmerston said, that if the com- any way liable to reduction, even by the mittee concurred in the amendment, the plan of the hon. gentleman. If, therefore, hon. gentleman would not be at all nearer the hon. gentleman's design ofa reduction the attainment of his object, because it of one-half were seriously entertained, he went only to the adoption of the recom- would cut off the whole of the efficient mendation of the committee of Finance of part of the establishment. The House 1817, to approximate as nearly to the would see how accurate and safe a guide, estimates of 1792, as might be "consistent they had in the hon. gentleman. with our more extended possessions, and course, he was aware in how superior a the augmented rates of the various fixed situation the hon. member stood in addisbursements." The whole question dressing the House on this occasion. He therefore was, whether there had been had at his ready service the general such an approximation, and he was pre- topics of declamation,-the expediency of pared to contend, that the resolutions he reducing the taxation of the countryhad to propose were framed with every the dangers of a standing army-the predue regard to economy, and adapted to valence of a military spirit in the governthe existing circumstances of the country. ment-and the burthen of large and unIn considering this point the fair criter- necessary establishments. But, he aption to judge by was not the mere pealed to the House if government had point which had been so much relied on not since the peace, by repeated reducby the hon. member; namely, that the tions of taxation, shown an earnest desire country was now, as in 1792, in a state to relieve the country from its burthens, of profound peace. They must, in coming and to put the establishments on a reato a decision, look to the present cir-sonable and effective footing. As to cumstances of the country; and he had displaying too much of a military spiritcontended, that, considering those cir- a charge which had been repeatedly urged cumstances, the existing military establishment was not too great. If that argument were of any force-if, his reasoning were Of against the government-for himself, and for those with whom he acted, he totally disclaimed it. He was sensible that there was nothing so absurd, so ill-judged, and so inconvenient for the government, as well as being grievous to the country, as large and unnecessary military establishments kept up in time of peace. It was not only bad economy as it regarded the public treasure, but it answered no purpose of political strength and security; and, in a military sense, for the preservation and maintenance of an effective service and sound discipline, it was notoriously defective. He was no advocate for large military establishments in time of profound peace. He stood there only to advise with the House upon that establishment which he considered as the best suited to the dignity of the country, and the necessities of the empire. He would just give one instance of the effects of too rapid a reduction of our forces. In 1821, the government, in compliance with the wishes of parliament, effected a considerable reduction of the establishment. What was the consequence? There immediately occurred an urgent necessity for a great increase in the colonial service. Great embarrassments were experienced by government and, at last, after trying for three or four years, they found it necessary to come to parliament for an augmentation of the forces. Last year he had stated in his place, that this augmentation was not wanted for any purpose at home-not for coercing the population-not for oppressing Ireland, but for colonial purposes. On that ground, and on no other, he now asked for this vote. He had explained before, that the additional force was required for reliefs on foreign stations in the first place; in the second place, to form a reserve at home, from which reinforcements might be sent to distant places, without stripping the country of its ordinary portion of defence. The hon. gentleman had said, that he would be content if it could be shown that the augmentation was employed for the purposes of the colonies; but the complaint of the hon. gentleman was, that the increase of force at home was large, while it was inconsiderable in the colonies. Now, to prove to the House that government had used no unfair pretence about the employment of these troops, in 1825, of each regiment consisting of ten companies, six went out to foreign service, and four came back. The House would observe, that not only was there an augmentation, but that there was an entirely new organization effected in the course of last year. Each regiment before that time went abroad in a body. By the new organization, out of each regiment of ten companies, four were left at home to recruit, and six went on foreign stations. He had formerly explained the advantages of modelling the army in that manner. The effect of this new organi zation was, that scarcely any but noneffectives were left at home, as these reserve companies consisted chiefly of recruits, invalids, and men who had come home for the purpose of being discharged. Now, as the casualties abroad were filled up regularly, it followed that scarcely any but non-effectives were left at home; so that of 8,000 men of these reserved companies, it would very seldom happen, that there were less than 6,000 non-effectives on the establishment at home. The augmentation then granted by parliament had fully answered the purpose, and had been applied as the government had undertaken to apply it. He did not suppose that any gentleman would assume it as the ground of his argument, that the colonial service ought to be a perfect banishment of officers and men that they should be compelled to pass the whole of their lives in tropical climes, or in other places equally unfavourable to their health. Yet such was the effect of the former method. In the East-Indies, there were eight regiments, which had been stationed there for nineteen years, without relief. There was one regiment at Ceylon, and another at the Mauritius, which had not been home for twenty-one years. Nor had the government been enabled yet to provide for their return, notwithstanding all their efforts to relieve them. If the number of forces were to be diminished, that relief would be impossible. The tendency of such a resolution on the part of the House would be, to consign officers and men, to a hopeless banishment, which, in other countries, was only visited as a punishment on the most culpable delinquents. The hon. gentleman was not more happy in his statement of the numerical military force of the country, than in the means by which he proposed to reduce the estimates. He stated, that we had an army of 239,000 men. How did he make out that magnificent army? By first of all enlisting the marines into it. Next, he puts forward the disembodied militia-a species of force admirably adapted to colonial service! But would the committee believe it? 22,000 men of that decription of force, and which the hon. gentleman contended were to be found in Ireland, had no existence, save in the vivid imagination of the hon. member for Montrose. Not one man of the Irish militia was embodied. So that, as far as they were concerned, the statement was a complete creation of the hon. member. By the same enlarged optics the hon. member had discovered an effective force of 74,000 volunteers. Now it was little less than ridiculous to calculate as part of the disposable force of this country a disembodied militia, in which not one private was enrolled, or to treat in the same manner men who were only assembled to perform eight days' permanent duty in the year. He thought he had stated enough to show that there were sufficient reasons why the House should not accede to the proposition of the hon. member; and when that hon. member calculated the increase of the expenditure since 1792, he should have considered what was the nature of that increase, and he would then have found that it depended on charges not connected with the increase of our disposable military force. In fact, the portion of the estimates to which he now particularly alluded would not be affected by the proposed reduction, even if that reduction were now to be carried into effect. In 1792, the expense for half-pay and annuities for past service, widows' pensions, and other charges of a similar nature, was 434,000l. The same expense last year, was 2,803,000l. So that, when they examined the charges, they would find that there was an addition of 2,400,000l. for what the gratitude of the country had voted in the way of provision for those who had been engaged in the public service. Under all the circumstances, he considered that no case had been made out to induce the committee to accede to the hon. member's proposition. Mr. Robertson adverted to the inconsistency of the hon. member for Aberdeen, in calling for low prices at one time, and attributing distress to them at another. He had generally voted with ministers upon this subject: but he really thought they did not know what they were about. They were opening our markets to a competition with foreign nations whose labourers lived at less expense, and could work cheaper than our own; and they were, at the same time, raising the standard of the currency. If they persevered, fewer commodities would be consumed, VOL. XIV. while the weight of the public burthens would be grievously augmented by the reduction. They ought, therefore, to do every thing that was possible in the way of reduction of the establishments. Mr. Hume said, he would have been satisfied with the application of the new forces to the relief of foreign garrisons, but his complaint still was, that they were chiefly kept at home. If government were sincere, the increase would only have been made in available corps. But, how stood the fact? The Life-guards were 785 men in 1792; they were now 1,305. The increase of the other regiments of cavalry was from 3,037 to 7,014. Were these additional cavalry wanted for the garrisons abroad? The guards had been increased from 3,572 to 5,726. They were not wanted to increase the garrisons abroad? Why not reduce 8,000 of this the most expensive class in the service, when they might keep 16,000 infantry for less money? Each cavalry man cost 741. per year, while the cost of an infantry soldier was only 317.; so that if the same money must be expended, more than double the number of men, and those of the useful and available sort, might be maintained with it. The marines, which now amounted to 9,000, were spoken of by the noble lord as only applicable to other services; but in some places they had been employed in garrison. He now came to the militia, whose numbers he was supposed to have overstated. What was the fact? The militia, he asserted, consisted of 55,092 men and officers. Of these, a large proportion were said never to have been enrolled. If that was the fact, how could the noble lord ask them to pay for a force which was not in existence, but which had, nevertheless, cost them a sum of 91,000l. per ann. since the peace? On the subject of the half-pay, he had only to observe, that if the government would not fill up the list of half-pay with young men in order to perpetuate the item, there might be some hope of a reduction in that quarter, but not otherwise. That they did so, was evident from the fact, that the half-pay list had greatly increased since the year 1816. At that time, the sum required for half-pay amounted to 114,000l. It had varied in the succeeding years, and it now amounted to 123,000l. So that our half-pay had materially increased during eleven years of peace. Lord Palmerston asserted that the 13,000 4 B |