[1302 troops of very great advantage to the adverted to the great waste of human service. The empire was not confined to life which had taken place in France the three kingdoms; there were limbs and during the reign of its late emperor. members of it in every quarter of the He believed this had been very much globe; and surely it would form a very exaggerated. We had before us a recent inconvenient and invidious distinction to instance where the French army mainhave one system of discipline for our tained the greatest propriety of conduct, troops at home, and another for those under circumstances calculated to prostationed abroad. It had been said that duce great disorders-he alluded to the this was a boon for the army; if it were late invasion of Spain, on which occasion so, he must, as far as he was connected he believed no irregularities had been with the army, beg leave to reject it. It committed which could in any way diswas to our discipline that we owed all our parage the discipline of that army. The military honour; it was not the arms or gallant general had also drawn an anadress of our army, but its discipline which logy between the English and Roman rendered it useful to its country, and armies, and seemed to think that both of feared by its neighbours; but if he had them owed their courage to the system of had no other reason for rejecting this flogging which prevailed in them; but he boon, as it was termed, he must confess would ask, where was ever a more cruel that when he considered the quarter people than the Romans? What atrociwhence it was offered, he felt but little ties were they not in the habit of commitdisposed to accept it. It was somewhat ting on their slaves? On one occasion, strange to find the same individuals where a murder had been committed by coming forward to present a boon to that a single slave, 650 were consigned to army, which they had not long ago stig- instant execution, as an atonement for it. matized as a mere engine in the hands of Was this the description of people to ministers, to be applied towards the de- whom we ought to be anxious to compare struction of our liberties. For his part, ourselves? The gallant general had he was fearful of accepting any thing, in spoken of the cane being used by other the way of gift, from that hand which had powers as an instrument of punishment; attempted with desperate hook" to cut but was there any analogy between a down the military glory of the country- cane and a cat-o'-nine-tails?—was there to deprive the army of the means of edu- any similarity in punishment between cation for those who were to fill its future striking a man who had his clothes on ranks-and to take from the veteran the with a cane, and flogging a man's naked well-earned reward of his toils and perils. back with an instrument calculated to When he found boons offered from such tear his skin and flesh from his hones? a quarter, he could not help exclaiming The gallant general had alluded to a with the poet" Timeo Danaos et dona punishment abroad, which prevented the ferentes." offender from reposing; but he should like to know what kind of repose one of our soldiers enjoyed after he had received eight or nine hundred lashes. If flogging were abolished in our army, it would soon be composed of a different description of persons. In consequence of the prevalence of this system, our soldiers were at present frequently the outcasts of society, who had adopted this profession because they were neither fitted for, nor could get admitted into, any other: whereas, let corporal punishments be done away with, and then farmers' sons would have no reluctance in entering into the army; which they were now deterred from doing through fear that they might thereby be subjected to a punishment which would disgrace them during life. Indeed, it formed the chief objection to this system of punishment, that it degraded the Sir R. Wilson said, he would not enter into any particular exemplification of a painful nature; but he would state generally, that his experience left no doubt on his mind, that the sort of punishment under discussion was one which ought to be abolished. It continued to exist in our military code, though every other power in Europe had rejected it. No such punishment was known in France, nor in many parts of Germany; nor in any shape similar to our own, even in Austria. In Holland it was completely abolished. The king of the Netherlands, on his return to that country, confirmed a decree previously issued for its abolition, and it had not since been re-introduced. The abolition had been attended with no prejudice whatever to the military service of that country. The gallant general had moral character, and that it vilified the individual who had been subjected to it to the last day of his life. He was con. vinced, that after this experiment had been tried for twelve months, there would be no complaints from officers, that they found any difficulty in controlling their men without having recourse to flogging. Mr. W. Smith said, he perfectly coincided with his gallant friend, that it was the nature of the punishment and not the severity of it, which was to be objected to. He thought some other mode might be devised equally effectual; such as stoppage of pay or provisions; at any rate, any expedient was preferable to flogging. There might be some few individuals in the army of such base and callous minds, that nothing but flogging could have any effect upon them; but it was neither just nor proper, that in order to meet these few peculiar cases, the comfort and credit of the whole army should be sacrificed. Sir F. Blake deprecated the infliction of corporal punishment. Colonel Johnson said, that the whole argument of the gallant general opposite, went to prove, that the chief good to be derived from the soldier must first be flogged into him. For his own part, he thought that if commanders would only contrive to command their own tempers, there would be but little recourse to that disgraceful, unnecessary, and detest able punishment. Lord Palmerston said, he did not wish to put the question on unfair grounds. He was ready to admit, that whenever punishment was accompanied with ignominy, it must necessarily have the effect of hardening the offender; but he conceived that the doing away with this punishment would have the effect of introducing other and greater evils. There was something in the constitution of an army which required some stronger and more speedy power to control it, than was necessary for the regulation of a mere civil body. Indeed, the history of every age and country showed this; and he would assert without fear of contradiction, that corporal punishment had prevailed in every army which had ever existed; and whether that punishment was administered with a cane or with a lash, did not seem to him to make much difference; at least with regard to the ignominy of it, which appeared to be the greatest objec tion which had been raised against it. He could assure the House that a dispo sition existed in the highest quarter to have recourse to corporal punishment as seldom as possible; and when, from the returns made to the commander-in-chief, it appeared that corporal punishment had been frequently inflicted in a regiment, the conclusion which he universally drew from it was, that the officers had been remiss in their duty. The argument of his gallant friend had been totally misre presented, when it was imputed to him that he had ascribed the courage of the Roman and English armies to the system of flogging which prevailed in them. When it was considered that our army was raised by voluntary enlistment and not by conscrip tion, it would be readily conceived that there must necessarily be no small difficulty in controlling a body of such different tempers and habits. He looked upon the proposition of the hon. member for Aberdeen, for confining the system of flogging to the troops employed in our colonies, and abolishing it at home, as highly objectionable, and he would conclude by re-assuring the House, that there existed a very strong disposition in the high quarter which had the direction of the army, to mitigate corporal punishment, as far as it could be mitigated, with a due regard to the maintenance of proper discipline in the army. Sir R. Fergusson said, he was convinced from the speech which the noble lord had just made, that he agreed in opinion with his hon. friend who had brought forward this motion, though in his situa tion it might not be prudent to avow it. The analogy which a gallant general bad endeavoured to draw between the soldiers of foreign powers and our own army ought not to be permitted for a single moment. The former were the subjects of despotic powers; the latter were the subjects of a free state. As far as his own personal experience went, he had always observed, that the best discipline was preserved in those regiments where corporal punishment was least frequently inflicted. From this he inferred, that whilst regiments were employed on home service, their discipline could be maintained without having recourse to the whip, or the cato'-nine-tails. General Townshend observed, that hav ing been in the performance of regimental duty for thirty years, he might be permitted to say, that he brought at least the benefit of experience to this question. Corporal punishments had formerly been very prevalent in the regiment of Guards to which he had the honour to belong; but he was happy to say, that of late the frequency of its infliction had much diminished. He was, however, of opinion that gentlemen were much mistaken who thought that the discipline of the army could be maintained without corporal punishment, The committee divided. For the clause 47; Against it 99; majority 52; HOUSE OF COMMONS. Monday, March 13. FINANCIAL SITUATION OF THE COUNTRY.] The House having resolved itself into a committee of Ways and Means, The Chancellor of the Exchequer rose to make his promised exposition of the Financial Situation of the Country, and addressed the committee as follows* : Although, Sir, the circumstances under which we are now called upon to review the situation of our finances, differ in some material respects from those which existed at the corresponding period of the last year, yet there is nothing, in my mind, in the present aspect of public affairs, which ought to create either alarm or despondency. There may be grounds, and no doubt there are grounds, for much of individual sympathy for the severe distress which recent events have brought upon many classes of the community; and it is impossible that the causes which have tended to produce that distress should not, at the same time, be accompanied by much public inconvenience and embarrassment. But, Sir, I think I may venture to say, that the violence of the storm has passed away; that the clouds which impended over us have begun to disperse; and that, by the very conflict of the elements, the atmosphere has, to a certain degree, been cleared and purified. If, indeed, there were any thing doubtful in the situation in which we now stand, and in the difficulties by which we have been so recently surrounded;-if there were any thing obscure or mysterious in their nature;-if they had arisen from causes beyond our comprehension; -then, indeed, there might be much more reason for uneasiness than appears to me * From the original edition printed for J. Hatchard and Son. to exist at the present moment. But in all the discussions which have taken place in parliament upon this subject in the course of the present session,-although there has undoubtedly been a great difference of opinion as to the precise extent to which different causes may have operated to produce certain results, there has prevailed among us, I think, but one sentiment as to the general nature of those causes, and as to their general operation in producing such consequences. I confess, therefore, that to my mind, this circumstance is a source of no ordinary consolation. In the course, however, of these dis cussions, there has been, in my opinion, a great deal of very unnecessary contest between those who are sneeringly denomi nated philosophers, and those who designate themselves by the more humble title of practical men. I call it "unneces sary contest," because I consider it to be the bounden duty of the legislature to endeavour at all times to render available the sound reasoning and theory of one class, by applying to them the practical experience of the other. It is only by a just application of the lessons of experience to the development of sound principles, that parliament can be enabled to determine upon its course; it is only by a judicious combination of these, the two elements of all wise conclusions, that the House and the public can be empowered to form a just estimate of the situation in which the country may be placed, and to arrive at an accurate and satisfactory decision. But, if those who have to prepare their minds for the consideration, or for the determination of subjects of this nature, are to be told that books must be thrown aside, and elementary reasoning rejected, I know not at what fountain they are to drink, if they are to be driven from those springs where science and knowledge are the presiding deities. Sir, when we find that in every class of the community knowledge has extended, and is extending itself to a degree, which but half a century ago would have been deemed impossible, are we who sit here, some of us as the ministers of the Crown, and all of us as united in the important act of legislating for a great country, are we, I ask, to be behind-hand in availing ourselves of the increasing lights of human intelligence? Is it not, on the contrary, our duty to struggle to be foremost in the race? Knowing, as we do, And, that the progress of human knowledge must, in the first instance, be gradual and limited, it is our business to take care that, instead of being out-stripped, we lead the way; and, by assisting the judgment of our countrymen, enable them to avoid the errors into which they might otherwise fall, in regard to those great questions which so nearly affect their own, and the national interests. I am aware, Sir, that there are some persons who think this general diffusion of knowledge the misfortune of the age; but, for my own part, I confess that I cannot conceive how that mind can be constituted which contemplates the progress of human knowledge with an eye of fear. On me it produces an impression diametrically the reverse. I am convinced, that the more accurately the mass of the people is informed, the more they are in a condition to see and comprehend what is essential for their good, and the means by which that good is to be attained; the more likely are they to abstain from the use of means which would be prejudicial in their operation, and which would be calculated to prevent, rather than to forward the attainment of the good which they naturally desire to possess. If, then, all men (I was going to use that despised term, all philosophers) are agreed in the maxim, that "knowledge is power," the general diffusion of knowledge becomes of incalculable value to a nation; for if, with reference to our present difficulties, and to all difficulties of a similar kind in which we may be placed hereafter, we find the people at large, if we find the legislature in accordance with the people, and if we find the government in accordance with the legislature-all building their conclusions on sound principles, all proceeding on the foundation of correct reasoning, I confess I think we may treat with comparative indifference the recurrence of the dangers by which we have lately been assailed; partly, because the chance of their recurrence will be diminished, and partly, because, if they should recur, we shall know better how to meet them. Sir, it is under these circumstances that we are called upon to look at the situation in which our finances now stand, and to consider what are the prospects of the country for the future. I think, however, that before I can satisfactorily proceed to explain the view which his majesty's government takes of what it is fitting to do under existing circumstances, I ought to recall the attention of the committee to the course which has been pursued with respect to our financial system during the last two or three years. And I am the more anxious to do this because I have been reproached,—and reproached in no very equivocal terms-with having, on former occasions, used warmer language than I ought to have used, and with having contributed by that language to the production of much of that mischief which we all so deeply deplore. Sir, it may be true, it undoubtedly is true, that in adverting to the situation of the country in the last few years, during which it has been my lot to have any concern in matters of this kind, I have used strong expressions of congratulation. It is true, I say, that, on such occasions, I have described the country as in a condition of prosperity. And, Sir, I do not now regret that language; I do not now depart from that declaration; for surely the country is not to be considered in a state of decadence because some untoward circumstances may have occurred, to interrupt her progress, and even throw her back, for the moment, in her course. But this I will venture to add, that however I may have erred in the terms which I have employed; however, from the delight which every honest man must feel in seeing his native land flourishing and happy, Ï may have congratulated the House on the result with more of earnest warmth than of calculating hesitation, I have, in no case, stated any thing as fact but that which was strictly true: and, I think I can satisfy the committee, upon a reference to what I have led them to expect during the last three years, and to the results which have actually ensued, not only that I have not intentionally deceived the country (though that, indeed, has, I believe, not been imputed to me) but, that no deception at all has been practised. When, in the year 1823, it first became my duty to submit to the House a view of our finances, I ventured to assume that, in the course of that year, a certain amount of revenue would be realised; and allow me to ask, what was the result? It was found that my estimate, not formed upon any over-confident anticipation of improvement and increase, but upon the plain and simple basis of the revenue which had been already received, was far below the actual amount. I assumed, in that year, that the Customs, the Excise, the Stamp duties, the Assessed Taxes, and sundry miscellaneous items, would produce an income of 52,200,000l. In the course of that session, we repealed taxes to the amount of about 3,200,000l.; of that sum I calculated that about a million and a half would be lost to the revenue in the course of 1823; so that in point of fact, my original estimate would have been borne out, if the receipts had been 1,500,000l. less than 52,200,000/. Now, what was the result? Why, that the actual revenue, after sustaining the loss that I have mentioned, amounted to It thus appears, that in those three estimates by the sum of 1,398,000%.; notyears the actual receipts exceeded the withstanding the concomitant repeal of no less than 8,000,000l. of taxes. I say, then, and I say boldly, that I have not erred as to facts; and that I have not been guilty, even involuntarily, of deluding the country by the language which I employed. 52,017,000l.; being less by 183,000l. only than my first estimate; and exceeding, Allow me, Sir, here to advert to another by 1,318,000l., what would have been point, to which it is material that the atsufficient to realise my anticipations, after tention of the Committee should be called. the reduction of taxes had been adopted. I have already stated, that in the course In regard to the year 1823, therefore, it is of the three years to which I have been clear that I held out no expectations alluding, taxes to the amount of 8,000,000%. which were not justified by the event. were repealed. But I think I should give And if the committee will examine the a very imperfect view of the situation of accounts for the following year, they will our finances, and of what has been done be led to the same conclusion. In the in respect to them, if I did not request the year 1824, I estimated the probable pro- committee to go back with me a little duce of the revenue at 51,265,000l. In further, namely, to the year 1816, when, the course of that session, however, taxes after winding up all the expenses of the were repealed to a very considerable war, parliament was enabled to establish amount; and I calculated that the loss and pursue something like a systematic which the revenue would immediately diminution of our burthens. It is very sustain in consequence, would be 630,000%. material, Sir, that this subject should be But what was the fact? The actual re- adverted to, because it has been argued, ceipts of the year, notwithstanding such in the course of the present session, that a reduction of taxes, were considerably in fact the reduction in the burthens of the beyond the original estimate which I had people which has been made since the formed: for, the estimate being 51,265,000l., conclusion of the war, is not worth speakthe actual produce was 52,562,000l.; ing of; that it is but a feather in the scale, being an excess of nearly 1,300,000l. opposed to the general amount of our exAgain, in 1825, I assumed that the reve- penditure; and that it has not been more nue derived from the same sources would than sufficient to balance the difference be 51,975,000l. From the repeal of taxes, which has taken place in the value of our subsequently enacted, I expected that in currency. It has also been maintained, the course of that year the loss upon that that it is impossible for us to return to a assumed amount would be about 650,000l. more sound currency (for the purpose of Yet, the actual receipt, notwithstanding returning to which, measures have lately the defalcation occasioned by that cause, been, and now are, under the contemplaand by the commercial difficulties and tion of parliament)-that that perilous pressure that began to be felt at the latter experiment, as it is described to be, cannot end of the year 1825, was 52,259,000; safely be hazarded, unless his majesty's or, 384,000l. above my original estimate ministers are prepared decidedly and esin the statement of the Budget; an esti-sentially to curtail the whole expenditure mate founded upon an hypothesis which had no reference to any reduction of taxes in the course of that year. of the empire at once, inasmuch as it would be impracticable to effect the melioration of our currency, and at the same time continue to levy the amount of taxation of which the Exchequer is at present in the receipt. Sir, I consider these two propositions to be wholly unfounded in £.155,440,000 fact and in reasoning. I think I shall be able to show the committee, that there is The result of all these statements is this: The estimated revenue for 1823 was £.52,200,000 51,265,000 51,975,000 1824 1825 ... Total |