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eternal, is, by the best authorities, Homer, and the sacred writers, limited to the age of the youngest person in this church.

W. You can probably prove the word, everlasting, to mean only one day.

Ť. I did not say so- -but Jonah limits its extent to three days. And I defy any respectable Greek scholar to say it means endless, without blushing.

W. It is applied to the punishment of the wicked, in connexion with the final judgment.*

T. If you would look at the adverbs used in the 31st verse, and then read Matt. xvi. 27, 28, Matt. xxiv. 3, unto the 35th. John xxi. 21, 23. 1 Pet. iv. 7, you would be forced to admit the judgment is past 1700 years, and consequently the punishment was temporal.

W. The sin against the Holy Ghost shall never be forgiven in this world, nor in that which is to come.

T. Sir, you preach, and your discipline asserts, that Jesus made a full atonement, oblation and sacrifice, for the sins of the whole world. If Jesus paid the debt, how could it be forgiven? According to orthodoxy, God forgives no sin, however small. Moreover, if a man commit murder, and be put to death for it, shall any pretend that the man was forgiven?

W. Do you admit there is any sin? Let this be decided.

T. I know not what you call sin; pray explain Acts ii. 23, and iv. 28. How could the Jews crucify Jesus with wicked hands, when delivered by the determinate counsel of God?

W. God delivered him for our offences, or offered him as a Saviour, and the Jews put him to death?

T. Then the Jews did much more to save the world, than God, for he only offered Jesus to be a Saviour, and the Jews by killing him, made him a Saviour; this is the best account I ever heard of them.

W. We believe the Jews did not put Jesus to death. The Lord made him an offering, and his wrath lay heavy on him, and occasioned the death of Christ.

T. I hear something more horrible, than I have ever before heard fall from the lips of a man, viz: that the wrath of God killed Jesus, whom, with an audible voice from heaven, he had declared to be his well beloved Son, in whom he is well pleased. W. Then the Father might deliver Christ, and the Jews, as free agents, might put him to death.

T. So then the Father only helped Judas to betray Jesus, and consequently Judas, was a co-worker with God. The term agent, cannot apply to man, who is entirely dependent. Pilate and the Jews did only what God's power and wisdom had predetermined to be done. Acts. iv. 28. Jesus said to Pilste "You could have no power against me, except it were given you from on high."t *Matt. xxv. 46. †John xix. 11. See Gen. 1. 20. Isa. xlv. 7, & Am. ii. 6

W. Then you do not believe in original sin, nor total depravity, consequently no change of nature is needed.

T. I know not what you call original sin; you tell me of the devil sinning in heaven, which if true, was before Adam sinned. Then you tell of Adam's sin being original. You talk of man's changing his nature, first to evil then to good. I believe all such stories, to be fanatical and imaginary. Every man has the nature God gave him, and God will never damn one man for another's offence.

W. I don't say he will, Jesus saves men from the sin of Adam and all its consequences.

T. When will Jesus save man from Adam's sin and all its consequences?

W. In the resurrection.

T. You have stated that human depravity and corrupt nature, as well as all actual sin flow from Adam. Now the argument is at an end. You have either committed yourself, or you are as much a Universalist as myself.

At a meeting of the Genesee Association, September 24, 1823, I applied for fellowship and ordination, which were both granted. It may here be asked, were you a preacher so long without ordination? I answer, yes; for though I was examined and appointed a preacher, among the Methodists, at the quarterly meeting in the city of Derry, June 1813, neither I nor any other Methodist preacher in the British Isles, was ever ordained to be a Minister in said British Isles; for there Methodists are republican, in America they are aristocrats; Proteus like, any thing to please. Hence, in England, there is no form of ordination attempted among the Methodists. But in America, forsooth, Jesus Christ, if the Methodist representation be true, being offended at democratical equality which he once taught his disciples and the Methodists of England, changed his administration, and established, Jure Divino, Episcopal hierachy, according to which, a man must have one ordination for a Deacon, another for a Priest, and at least a third for a Bishop! a specimen of ridiculous boyish foppery, not exceeded in all the reveries of fanaticism, the pride of papal arrogancy, nor the usurpation of political despotism. An assumption which can only exist where the New Testament is disbelieved or set at open defiance.

The one ordination to the office of Presbyter, is the lowest and highest which the New Testament sanctions in relation to the sacred ministry: and thus the subject was understood in the primitive church. The Presbyterian form of church discipline is therefore the most correct, Christian, Apostolic, and rational in existence, and all other forms are more or less scriptural and perfect, in proportion as they approximate to the Presbyterian. This is not the opinion of prejudice nor inexperience, it is the result of

long, disinterested and careful examination. I submit to forms of utility and decorum, and desire to see them observed, but I am persuaded neither ordination nor consecration makes a bad man good or a good better. It is clear that Barnabas and Saul were preachers in the days of the apostles, for some time, before they were ordained to the ministry.* As a specimen of the usual form, we insert the following certificate of Ordination.

To all whom it may Concern.

"This certifies that the Rev. John S. Thompson, being an approved minister of the Gospel, was, at Pittsford, N. Y. September 25, 1823, publicly ordained as an Evangelist, in full fellowship with the Genesee and Western Associations of Universalists; and is hereby recommended to the patronage, confidence, and brotherly kindness of all, who believe in the "Restitution of all things," and love our Lord, in sincerity.

Attest,

By order of the Genesee Association.
SOLIVER ACKLEY,
SAMUEL A. SKEELE,

Clk's.

ISAAC WHITNAL, Moderator.

Having begun to preach, occasionally, in Rochester, I removed thither shortly after the Association. Here I preached every second Sabbath in each month. I also held evening lectures, on Friday of every week for the first three months, and submitted to be interrogated on all religious subjects, by any member of the congregation. As might have been expected, a vast variety and a motley collection of questions were proposed. Finding that many gained confidence and freedom of speech by this means, I instiuted a Berean Society for the discussion of religious subjects indiscriminately. The subjects discussed were as follow: The Nature of the Soul; The Doctrine of the Trinity; The Deity of Jesus; The pre-existence of Christ; The existence of Satan: Does the Old Testament teach the doctrine of a future existence? Does a man's belief or unbelief facilitate or retard his entrance. to Heaven? Is there any pain in another mode of existence? The doctrine of the Atonement: &c.

During this year, I published the "Rochester Magazine and Theological Review;" which, though somewhat severe, was not ill adapted to check the proud pretentions of partiality, and excite a more particular attention to the doctrine and criticism of the Bible. In the fourteenth page of this work, replying to a pamphlet by Mr. Covel, in which he charged Universalism with a licentious tendency, I answered: "We admit, Sir, that the character of God may be both slandered and traduced, even as basely as you have done in your pamphlet! But what follows

*See Acts 13. 1-4.

Chastisement, fatherly chastisement! Look out for the rod, Sir, it cannot be far off." Far off it was not! for in four or five weeks after, his death took place in the most sudden and unprecedented manner! As we said in the Magazine, so now, we do not allege this case as absolute proof of our doctrine, but the whole history of orthodoxy, cannot prove one so well authenticated fact in its favor. The means by which he and some other Methodist prea-` chers at Rochester, carried their opposition towards me and the doctrine I taught, was fully characteristic of the sect; but for the sake of humanity, I decline publishing the disgusting detail of particulars.

Shortly after this, a certain man arriving in Rochester, thought it was his duty to confound me with argument, expose the vileness of Universalism, and perhaps do something worthy of all praise. Immediately on entering my room, where I sat writing, he commenced his address in such wise, that I soon perceived his intent. Sir, I am a stranger, I am informed you are a Universalist preacher. There are difficulties in the way of your doctrine, which seem to me insurmountable; and I wonder how you can get over them. Name the principal said I. The sin against the What of it? Those who commit that sin must go What sort of a place is Hell? A place of eternal burnings. Will we have the same bodies then, and be capable of the same feelings? Yes. Well Sir, there is no reason why we should be much concerned; for one minute will despatch us, and pain will be at an end. Not so, Sir, said he, God will make us all able to endure the fire. Well, Sir, replied I, only let us understand the matter, and there is no necessity for alarm. If God make us complete salamanders, we shall like the fire as the fish do the waters. He departed without reply.

Holy Ghost. to Hell!

I should not have left Rochester, had I succeeded to obtained a Church, but the Society was too timid, and perhaps too weak, to build a house of sufficient size and respectability: and through the inconvenience, arising from the want of a suitable place of worship, the prospects of the Society were darkened. During the months of January, February, and March, 1825, I preached one half of the time at Palmyra, in the Academy. The meetings were as respectable, and nearly as numerous as at any other place of worship in that township, and I have no doubt but the foundation was then laid of a respectable Society in that village.

A Methodist preacher who attended two of my discourses at Palmyra, observed to some of the congregation, that if the Lord would convert me, I would make an excellent minister. As to conversion, if he meant religious impressions, I have been acquainted with these from my youth up, but if he meant a change of opinion from the knowledge of the Father as the only true God, and Jesus whom he hath sent as the Saviour of the world, I believe God will never convert me nor any other man from it to

the gloomy darkness of doubtfulness and the cancerous infection of blind partiality. May the Lord ever save me from the desperate and pernicious influence of superstition, on the one hand, and the unhallowed miserable tendency of unbelief and hardness of heart, on the other: that I may, through grace, walk in the middle path of truth and righteousness, and thereby adorn the doctrine of God my Saviour in all things.

At the house of my worthy friend, P. Holmes, Palmyra, I had an interview with an impeccable Methodist, who had enjoyed full sanctification for five years; and positively said he could not sin! We held a close discussion for about one hour, which terminated thus:

Z. I pray that you may be convinced of your error.

1. Can you really pray in faith for me?

Z. I ought.

T. And for all men?

Z. Yes.

!

T. Then you must be a Universalist; for none but Universalists can pray, as the Scriptures direct, for all men.

Z. I was once a Universalist, but the Lord convinced me I

was wrong.

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T. What made you a Universalist?

Z. Following my carnal reason.

T. What convinced you of your mistake?.

Z. The spirit of the Lord and my Bible.

T. If your Bible convinced you, you can tell us what passages were instrumental in producing this effect.

Z. The Bible generally.

T. You must be particular and name the very words which say that Universalism is an error.

2. If I should begin to reason about the Bible, as you do, I should be a Universalist yet.

T Then it is clear, your reasor teaches you to be a Universalist still, and only tradition and your own imagination teach you

that it is an error.

Z. I admit my reason leads me to be a Universalist.

T. Does it even now lead you to believe so?

Z. It does.

T. Then, Sir, instead of your being a sanctified person, you are, most assuredly, a great hypocrite, pretending to be a Methodist, when in reality, you believe Universalism; for no man existing can believe otherwise than as his reason determines. Z. I desire to be guided by the spirit.

T. Men profess to be guided by the same spirit, to very different results. The Quaker says, wait in silence; the Methodist says, sing and pray lustily; the Calvinist says, Christ died only for a few; the Arminian says he most assuredly died for all. In all this contradiction, Protestants pretend to be guided by the

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