Mr. Remak objected. Objection was sustained. Question by Mr. Van Dyke. Is there anything else you recollect in connexion with Mr. Hertz that you have not stated? If there is, state it. Any conversations that you had with Mr. Hertz or Mr. Crampton about Mr. Hertz being engaged in this business. A. I remember a conversation with Crampton about Hertz, where Crampton said he believed The question and answer were ruled out. Q. Do you recollect any conversation Mr. Hertz had with any person, or any conversation you had with him? A. I heard many conversations of Mr. Hertz with other officers who left for Halifax. It was a promise Hertz made to these men in the name of Mr. Howe, and through Mr. Howe in the name of the English government, to give them commissions in the foreign legion, if they would go to Halifax, if they were military men before, and so on; and when some of them would express doubts on the subject, Mr. Hertz would try and prove that he had really the power to promise. Q. Anything else? A. I remember there was some money given to the men by Mr. Hertz. Q. Which men? A. To the men who enlisted. Q. What was money given them for? A. To pay board to the very day they sailed, from the time of enlistment to the time of leaving. Q. Who paid for the tickets? A. I suppose Mr. Hertz-I do not know. Q. Who gave the tickets? A. Mr. Hertz did. Q. For the seventy-eight you took? A. Yes, sir. Q. You say you had a hundred in your company; how happened it that you only took that number? A. Afterwards some men were sent from Philadelphia. Q. How did it happen that you first had one hundred men, and only took seventy-eight with you? A. The other parties came on afterwards, and were put to my company as they came on, particularly men from Philadelphia. Q. What became of this company? A. It sailed on the 8th of August for Portsmouth, England, to equip for its destination. Q. (Cards shown witness.) What are these? A. These are the cards which were given to the men to get a passage on board the boat. Mr. Hertz got the cards; I do not know where he got them from. Q. What is that on it? A. It is H. Q. Whose signature is it? A. Mr. Hertz's. Q. What is the meaning of N. S. R. C.? A. It means Nova Scotia Railroad Company, I suppose. The ticket was given in evidence; the following is a copy: N. S. R. C. H. Q. Did you take these tickets all the way to Nova Scotia? A. Every man had one of these tickets, and they passed him on the boat. Cross-examined by Mr. Remak. Q. Did you go to see Mr. Hertz of your own notion, or did anybody request you to go to see him? A. I was requested by Dr. Biell to see Mr. Hertz, as I had seen Crampton only a few weeks before. Q. Did you know Hertz before that time, before Biell mentioned his name? A. No, sir. Q. You did not know him at all? A. No, sir. Q. You had already seen Mr. Crampton at the time Biell spoke to you? A. Yes, sir; Biell told me Hertz had a letter which he had shown him Mr. Remak. There is no use saying that. You saw Hertz on the 10th of March? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did you see him? A. At his office, 68 South Third street. Q. Did you know the business of Mr. Hertz? A. Yes, sir, he was enlisting men for the foreign service; Mr. Hertz himself said so when I came up there. Q. Was it not at his office you said people came in and enlisted, and entered their names in a book? A. Yes, sir. Q. (Showing book.) Here is the book presented to you; do you swear that this is the identical book you saw there? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were all the names here entered by the persons themselves, or by whom? A. Not exactly all these names; many of the men signed their names themselves, and others could not write, and Mr. Hertz or somebody wrote down the names. Q. Now, be so good as to describe this book; does it contain anything but the names and places of residence? A. It contains the names of those men; most of them I took with me, as my company, to Halifax. Q. And contains the residence of some? A. Yes, sir, of some. Q. It contains nothing else? A. It contained at that time the names of several officers willing to go; it contains now but those names. Q. You say you received money from Mr. Hertz? A. Yes, sir. Q. For what purpose? A. I received money from Mr. Hertz, and was obliged to give him a kind of note, in which I stated I had received so much money, and it would be repaid. Q. (Showing witness a paper.) Is this paper signed by you? A. Yes, sir. The paper was read as follows: "I received from Mr. Hertz $5 on my word of honor. "MAX F. O. STROBEL." Mr. Remak. The figures are blotted, and it looks as if it had been altered from $5 to $25. Witness. The signature is true, but I believe the 25 is false. I actually received, on my word of honor, from Mr. Hertz $10, but I never remember having given Hertz a receipt for this $25 I received on board the boat; I never remember, but there is a possibility. Q. You stated in your examination in chief that you received $25 the day you started? A. Yes, sir, I received $25 that day. Q. You state now you do not remember having given a receipt for it ? A. I do not remember; I acknowledge this signature-that might be another note I gave to Hertz, stating I only received $5. This is my signature. Q. You received $25 on that day, and this paper states in num ber 25 ? A. It states here $25. I do not recollect signing any paper for $25. I recollect saying to Mr. Bucknell I received that money. Judge Kane. Is this material? Mr. Remak. It is for the purpose of showing that money has been. loaned to the witness. Q. You say you were present when several different men came in at different times and signed their names in that book? What were the conversations between Hertz and those persons? A. The conversation was that he showed the parties the proclamation or advertisement, and he said there is a foreign legion as you see in Halifax; and if you feel able and disposed to enter this foreign legion in Halifax, I will give you the means to go to Halifax as a soldier in that legion-that is, if you are willing to go to Halifax and be enlisted for this foreign service. Q. Can you swear that Hertz ever said to enlist as a soldier for the foreign service? A. I can swear that he said he wanted them to go to Halifax for the purpose of enlisting for British service. Q. Did he pay anything to them? A. He paid to several of them, but not every one-to some of them he paid one dollar; to some 25 cents, and to some 50 cents. Q. Do you recollect the names of any of the men to whom he gave 25 cents? 4. To Purde, and several others-their names are in the list. Q. Were any of those people very poor? A. Yes, sir, some of them were. Q. Did you know that these people were actually in want of food? A. Not in want of food. Q. Do you believe that these people had any money at all? A. I believe they had none. Q. Were they not looking out for work? A. They had been looking out for work. Q. And could they get it? A. They said they could, but as they were detained they must be paid. Q. They could get work they said? A. If they would not be retained. Q. Did these people use the word retained? A. They said they could get work if they were not kept waiting here doing nothing, and being promised every day that this vessel should sail for Halifax Q. Then these people did not employ the expression retained? Mr. Remak. You have to give the conversation exactly as it took place; be very strict; what language did these people speak? A. In the German. Q. Then they had no idea of the word "retained ?" A. We have a word in German that means as much. Q. What is it? A. "Augeholten." Mr. Remak. May it please your honor, that word means detained. Q. Did not these people mean to say that their time was wasted by being unemployed? A. No, sir, they said, or meant by saying so, that their time was taken by Mr. Hertz. Q. Did not some people come into the office who declined to go to Halifax? A. Not that I remember. Some of them came once, but never afterwards. Q. What did Hertz say when they declined-if you recollect they did decline? A. I do not remember that any one declined. Q. Did Mr. Hertz offer them anything the moment he spoke of going to Halifax? A. Not at that moment. Q. Mr. Hertz did not offer them anything when he asked them to go to Halifax? A. No, sir. Q. Did he actually ask them to go to Halifax? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did not he leave it optional? Did not he represent the matter that they would get employment there? Witness. Get employment in Halifax? Witness. No, sir, that could not be, because this advertisement was lying on the table, and for that purpose the men came up. Q. When the men came in, you say Hertz did not offer them anything; when they were ready to go to Halifax, what did Hertz say? A. Mr. Hertz said, I have a vessel ready for you to start in a day or so. Q. Did he state for what purpose this vessel would start? A. For conveying these men to the "foreign legion" at Halifax. Q. You stated that he gave some of the men one dollar, and some twenty-five cents; to how many of the men did he give anything at all? A. It is very difficult to say. Q. Did he give it to twenty? A. I suppose that is the number. Q. Have you been present every time he gave these men something? A. Not to more than twenty. I cannot say that he gave to more than twenty. Q. Then you do not know if he gave to any one else? A. No, sir. Q. The names you remember mention now. A. Barrier, Blecher, Brining, Foley, Worrell. The court here overruled the question. Q. You stated in your examination in chief that some of the men received money to board? A. Yes, sir. Q. How much did they receive? A. I cannot tell whether Hertz gave three shillings or four shil lings; to some he gave three, some four, and perhaps some a dollar. Q. Did Mr. Hertz ever promise you a commission? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did he promise you? A. In his office. Q. In whose presence? A. In the presence of Mr. Rumberg and Lieutenant Essen. Q. Did he show you any authority for doing so? A. I believed he had, because he made me himself acquainted about the letters and orders he had received from the British government, and I showed him my letters, although I never saw his letters. He promised me a commission. Q. Did Mr. Hertz derive any benefit from all the transactions you know of? A. I cannot tell. Q. You remember that you said in your examination in chief, that Mr. Hertz said himself that what he had received did not cover expenses? A. At that time. Q. Do you know, from your own knowledge, that Hertz has received, at any other time, any more money? A. I cannot swear that Hertz received more money than he expended, but I can swear he received money. |