Q. When did you see him? A. I saw him on the 27th of March. A. No, sir. Q. Were you on the boat? A. Yes, sir-in the steamer Menemon Sanford, on the river Dela ware. Q. Had you seen Mr. Hertz before that? A. I saw him the day before, at 68 South Third street. We were taken on a Wednesday. Q. How came you to go to his office? A. I called first on Monday. I saw the advertisement in the Ledger of men wanting. I did not read it myself, but another man read it for me, and I went to see. Mr. Budd was there. I told him I had called from seeing the advertisement of soldiers wanted, and I said that I wanted to enlist. Mr. Budd told me that I could not be enlisted there, but that he could tell me how I could get to Halifax, and said that I supposed that would do to get to Halifax. He then told me I must come once again. I called again that afternoon, which was Monday afternoon, and he told me that a boat had gone before, and it was a pity I had not been sooner. I called again on Tuesday, and Mr. Hertz was there. I told Hertz my business-that I had come to enlist; and the reply he made I cannot tell now, but it was "very well," or something to that effect. He told me to stay a while, and I staid a while, and some more men came. I told him my name, and he wrote it down on a sheet of paper. He also wrote some others. I told him, when he was going to write it, that another man had written it the day before, and he said, "Very well, I will take it again.” Q. (Paper shown.) Is that the paper on which your name was written? A. That is my name on it, though I cannot say whether it is the paper on which Mr. Budd wrote my name the first day. I called on Hertz the day after. He did not tell me what bounty I would receive; I did not inquire. He gave a ticket, and I was to go down to the boat. Q. (The "N. S. R. C." ticket shown.) Was it a ticket like that? A. I actually believe it was one of those green tickets. I think so, but would not swear positively that it was a green ticket, though I actually do believe it was one. I recollect its having those letters ("N. S. R. C.") on it. Q. What did he tell you to do with the ticket? A. He told me I was to go down and go on board at Pine Street wharf. I then went away, and called back again to the office, and I asked him "was I to go on board and say nothing to no one, or was there to be anybody there to receive me?" He told me to go down between nine and ten, and go straight on board, and to tell the rest, if I saw them, to go on at the same time. I went next morning and did so, and went on board the boat, and was taken about to the navy yard, when they brought us back again. Q. What took place when you got on board the boat? A. I saw Mr. Budd on board the boat, and we were called together, and an exchange of tickets took place. We were going on, and, I thought, in a fair way for Canada; and the next news that I heard was that we were all made prisoners. Q. Did Mr. Budd call you together? A. Yes, sir; he was there, acting as a kind of officer, or man in authority. He did not put us in military form, but called us together. Cross-examination by Mr. Remak: Q. How much money have you received from the United States as witness fees? Mr. Van Dyke objected. You need not answer that question. Peter Muhn sworn. Examined by Mr. Van Dyke. Q. Do you know Mr. Hertz? A. Yes, sir, I have known him since the 26th of March. I first saw him in the office, No. 68 South Third street. Q. How came you to go there? A. There was a man told me that there was an office to send men to Halifax to work. I was out of work, and went there. That was on Monday afternoon, and I found nobody there but Mr. Budd and that young man there, Mr. Bosschart. He told me to come next day, when Mr. Hertz would be home, and then I could know all about it. I went there next day, and he said yes, he sent men to Halifax, to work. Q. What kind of work? A. Any work that you pleased; and if I did not like it there, I could get a free ticket back here again; and that if I wanted to go in the army, I would get $30 bounty and $8 a month. He told me to come in again about 2 o'clock, and he would tell me all about it. I went in about 2 o'clock, and he said that Budd was going off next day at 10 o'clock, and he gave me a ticket. Q. What colored ticket was it-red, yellow, blue, or green? A. I do not recollect; one of the green, I guess. (Ticket shown.) That is like it; Pine Street wharf was on the back of it. Q. You went to Pine Street wharf? A. Yes, sir, and I went on the boat. Q. Whom did you meet there? A. I met Mr. Budd; he was there, and he took command of us. Q. Did you ever see Hertz down there? A. No, sir. Q. You were arrested that day, were you not? A. Yes, sir. John Jenkins, sworn. Examined by Mr. Van Dyke. Q. You are deputy marshal? A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you state whether you had a warrant, in the latter end of March, for the arrest of certain parties, and whom? A. The marshal had a warrant for the arrest of Hertz and others, and I accompanied him. Q. State what you did then? A. The marshal directed me to go on board the steamer Sanford, and arrest the party that were there. I arrested Mr. Budd, together with some twelve or fifteen men, whose names I do not remember. The marshal himself afterwards went to the office of Mr. Hertz, and there arrested Mr. Hertz, Mr. Bosschart, and two others-four in all, I think. Q. Mr. Hertz was among them? A. Yes, sir. Q. You arrested these men? A. Yes, sir. Q. ("N. S. R. C." tickets shown.) Do you know these tickts? A. Each of the men had tickets similar to those upon their person. I took them from them. Q. (N. Y. steamer ticket shown.) Do you recollect that? A. I do not recollect that. Q. (Book of Dr., containing cash-account, shown.) Do you remember that book? A. No, sir, I do not. Q. (Book containing list of names shown.) Do you remember that book? A. Yes, sir, I remember that book. I found it in the secretary, which Mr. Hertz called his private secretary, in the enlisting office. He gave me the key, and I opened it. Q. (Receipt shown.) Did you find that there? The receipt was read in evidence, as follows: "PHILADELPHIA, March 25, 1855. "Received of Mr. Hertz $84 for passengers to Halifax. "A. WINSOR." Q. Did you find this receipt of the Ledger for advertising one and two-thirds squares half a month, $9 50, dated March 16, 1855, at the office, No. 63 South Third street? A. Yes, sir, it was in the secretary; I recollect it. Q. Did you find the receipt of the Pennsylvanian there? A. Yes, sir; (this receipt will be found on page 144 ante.) Question by Mr. Remak. Is Mr. Hertz's name in that receipt? Mr. Van Dyke. No, sir, it is not. Q. ("N. S. R. C." ticket shown.) Did you find any number of these tickets there? A. Yes, sir, they were similar to these. Q. What did you do with them? A. I gave them to you. Q. Do you recollect whether you arrested Michael Gilroy as part of that company? A. Yes, sir. Q. On the boat? A. Yes, sir. Q. Hugh Casey? A. Yes, sir. Q. James Johnson? A. I do not remember the name. Q. Charles Weaver? A. I do not remember the name. Q. Peter Muhn? A. I do not remember that. Q. Philip Label? A. No, sir. Q. Augustus Titus? A. I remember that. Q. Bremen Kernsten? A. I do not remember that. Q. William Finley? A. No, sir. Q. You remember Titus, you say? A. Yes, sir, I believe they all were the parties on the boat, but I do not remember the names at this time, nor did I hear the names at that time; I remember Gilroy, Titus, and Casey. Q. (Paper shown.) Do you remember that paper? A. Yes, sir, I got that in his office; it was on the file. The paper was read in evidence, as follows: "PHILADELPHIA, 26th of 3d month, 1856. "This is to certify, that Mr. Julinas Lyncks is in sound health and fit for any service. "BEIL, Doctor." Q. (Papers shown witness.) Do you remember those? Mr. Van Dyke. The one is the paper which Mr. Budd stated contained the names of the persons he took, and the other appears to be a copy of the recruiting beok. Examined by Mr. Remak. Did Mr. Hertz, on the day of his arrest, give you the key of his office and the key of his desk of his own accord, freely? A. I demanded them. Q. Did he give them without any hesitation? A. I demanded them through you, and after consultation with him you directed Hertz to give them to me. Q. Did he give them of his own accord, or did I ask him? A. I think that it was after you directed him to do it. I do not think I had any conversation with Mr. Hertz about the keys-it was with you. Q. I think, in your examination before the commissioner, you said that at the time Hertz gave you the keys, and I had no objections. Q. By Mr. Guillou. You mentioned that you arrested a number of persons on the boat, and you also said that you arrested at the office Hertz, and some others whom you did not mention. You did not arrest Mr. Perkins there? A. No, sir, the marshal arrested Perkins. He was not at Mr. Hertz's office, or upon the boat. I do not know where he was when he was arrested. Edward G. Webb, affirmed. Examined by Mr. Van Dyke. A. I am. Q. Have you ever had any conversation with him, previous to the 28th of March, in relation to recruiting for the British service? A. Yes, sir; I cannot speak as to the date, but during the time the enlistment was going on in Third street, opposite Dock, I met Mr. Perkins in Dock street, I think at the corner of Third and Dock, and we walked down as far as Walnut and Dock streets, and there stopped; a conversation arose between us as to the enlistment going on, or said to be going on, in one of those buildings on Third street; he stated he was hiring men at $1 25 a day, and sending them to Canada or Nova Scotia, or some other place in the British provinces; I asked him for what purpose-whether they were to go in the foreign legion to serve in the Crimea; he said he employed them nominally for the purpose-I do not know whether I use his language, but I give the idea of working upon a railroad; I remarked to him that I thought they would find their way into the barracks, and he said he had no doubt of that, or he supposed so, or something of that sort. Q. Did he state to you at any time whether he was doing this at the suggestion or by the advice of any higher authorities than himself? A. He did; he told me he had not been long from Washington, and that he had had an interview with Crampton, the British minister, while there, in relation to this subject, and that he had been called to Washington in consequence of some disclosures made in Philadel phia, or other places, about the matter; I understood him to say that he or Crampton waited upon Mr. Marcy, or that Crampton told him that he had seen Mr. Marcy and had entered into an explanation about the course they had pursued in Philadelphia; and that after he had explained, Mr. Marcy either clapped him upon the shoulder-Perkins or Crampton, I do not now distinctly recollect which-and said "You are a cunning dog, you have not violated any law of this country.” Q. Did he tell you what he was doing? A. He said he had employed a large number of men; he mentioned the number, but it has escaped my memory; that he employed them at $1 25 a day, to go into the British provinces, nominally to work upon the railroad, but really to go into the army. Mr. Guillou. Did he say that? A. That is not his precise language, but that is the idea; it is impossible for me to recollect his language. Q. Give the substance of it? A. As near as I recollect, he said he had employed a large number of men, and had despatched, I think he said, 500 already, nominally to work upon the railroad in one of the provinces, but he expected that they would find their way to the barracks. I asked him whether he did not employ them for that purpose. Well, (he said,) he did not care a damn where they went after they got there; that his purpose was to get them there, and then they might take care of themselves. Q. Did he say that the British authorities would take care of them after they got there? |