from Stadacona can then move that the words be struck out, and that it be referred to a Committee of the Whole for consideration, and then, when the Committee of the Whole are discussing the matter, as we are privileged to do, we can speak a dozen times if we like, but if the matter is taken into consideration by the Senate, we can only speak once. Then, when the committee reports, the House would have to adopt or reject the Bill. So that to my mind the motion is quite in order, and when it is taken up for consideration, the hon. gentleman from Stadacona or myself or anyone else can move that it be not considered at that moment by the House or that it be referred to a Committee of the Whole, and then the House can discuss the mat ter. Hon. Mr. CLORAN-I agree largely with what has been said by the hon. gentleman, but I will put out a difficulty immediately. When the hon. chairman of the Railway Committee next week. Hon. Mr. MACDONALD (B.C.)-I rise to a point of order. The hon. gentleman has spoken twenty times on an unimportant matter. If each hon. gentleman had simply spoken once, the question would have been settled before now. I hope the hon. speaker will keep us in order. Hon. Mr. CLORAN-If I am not in order, everybody else has been out of order. The SPEAKER-I confess and I will leave it to the House-that I cannot recall that the hon. gentleman from Victoria spoke after the amendment was put by the hon. gentleman from Stadacona. Hon. Mr. CLORAN-I have not spoken. Hon. Mr. POIRIER-I call for the decision of the chair on the amendment Hon. Mr. CLORAN-Order will be obtained when my views are placed before the House The hon. gentleman from Hastings has stated that the chairman of the committee had a perfect right to do what He had a he did. Nobody disputes that. right to do what he did do; but what this House has a right to do is to upset what he wants to do, and that notwithstanding his pretention that he has not made a motion. He has given notice that on a certain day certain Bills shall be considered. That notice can only be passed in this House by a vote which will be put by the chair in a few moments. Therefore, this is a motion. The hon. gentleman from Hastings stated that the House would lose nothing of its privileges or rights by allowing the motion to go, and on Tuesday next or Thursday next when the matter comes up, any member would have a right to move that it be referred to a Committee of the Whole. That is right, but we lose our privilege and we lose our right when the hon. gentleman from De Lanaudière will make his motion next Thursday and no mer ber can speak more than once; and if he has enough supporters of this Bill in the House to prevent the House from going into Committee of the Whole we cannot speak any more so that when the hon. gentleman from Hastings says we lose nothing by allowing this motion to go I contend on the contrary that we lose a great deal, we lose the opportunity of discussing it upon its merits. We hold that notwithstanding the point of order raised by the hon. gentleman from New Brunswick, this motion does not require two days' or any other notice. Under rule 25 he has the right to make the motion. Hon. Mr. LOUGHEED-I rise to a question of order. I submit that there is nothing before the House for discussion, and I would like the ruling of the chair on that question. The SPEAKER-There is a point of order raised by the hon. gentleman from Shediac against the motion made by the hon. gentleman from Stadacona. Therefore, our rule says distinctly that one day's notice must be given, and the hon. chairman cannot do otherwise. He must give a notice of motion, and we cannot discuss the Bill. My hon. friend from the west very properly said that this discussion was not proper, because there was no motion before the House, merely a notice of motion, which must necessarily be only a notice of motion by the rules Hon. Mr. CASGRAIN—You cannot amend of the House. a notice of motion. Hon. Mr. LOUGHEED-I wish to get back to the original cause of the discussion. If there was not anything before the House to which an amendment could be moved or a notice of amendment could be given, it must become manifest that all the subsequent motions or notices of motion must fall to the ground. Hon. Mr POIRIER-It need not be a motion. The SPEAKER-I have this amendment. There is no point of order raised against it, or none that appears to me upon which I could render a decision, and I take it as it is. He moved that this report be taken into consideration on Thursday next, and in amendment it is moved by the hon. gentleman from Stadacona that it be taken into consideration on Thursday next by a Committee of the Whole House. Hon. Mr. POIRIER-With the permission of the House Some hon. MEMBERS-Order, order! Hon. Mr. POIRIER-I now further claim that the motion itself is out of order, because the duty of the chairman of the committee is to give notice. Some hon. MEMBERS-No, no. Hon. Mr. POIRIER-Rule 24 says that one day's notice must be given of any of the following motions, and paragraph 'h' reads: For the adoption of a report, not merely formal in its character, from any standing committee. Hon. Mr. LANDRY-Is that the adoption of the report? Hon. Mr. POIRIER-No. He gives notice that it will be taken into consideration on Thursday next, as he must do. Hon. Mr. DeBOUCHERVILLE-The hon. gentleman gave notice of a motion. The SPEAKER-He put it in the form of a motion. Hon. Mr. CLORAN-I nave just one word more Some hon. MEMBERS-Order, order. The SPEAKER-The hon. gentleman from Victoria has the floor. Hon. Mr. CLORAN-Has the chairman of any committee the right to give notice of motion, to take his report of a committee into consideration of the House, and has he an equal right to ask the House to take it into consideration by a Committee of the Whole? If that answer can be given in the affirmative, then I will ask the hon. Chairman of the Railway Committee, instead of asking the House to-day to take the report into consideration, that he shall move that the matter be considered by a Committee of the Whole House. Hon. Mr. CASGRAIN-I beg to give notice that on Thursday next I will move the consideration of the report. Hon. Mr. FERGUSON-If there is no motion, the amendment becomes the main motion. right to withdraw his motion unless I withdraw my amendment. Hon. Mr. CASGRAIN-By leave of the House. Hon. Mr. LANDRY-No, no. My amendment must be withdrawn before his motion can be withdrawn, and I will not withdraw my amendment. Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL-I was going to ask the chairman of the committee what the practice is; whether this Bill will be reprinted with the amendments, made by the committee before the matter is taken up by a Committee of the Whole House? I do not know what the custom is here, but in the House of Commons where Bills have been materially amended, they have been reprinted before being considered in the House. Hon. Mr. CLORAN-I should like a de cision of the question I put to the Speaker. The SPEAKER-It has been the practice of the Senate to fix by motion a day for taking into consideration a report of a committee. That has been the rule since I have been in the chair. On such a motion, I believe, the amendment of the hon. gentleman from Stadacona is regular; that instead of being taken into consideration by the Senate, it shall be considered by the whole House, and I declare the amendment in order, anu the motion is on the amendment of the hon. gentleman from Stadacona. Hon. Mr. YOUNG-I do not know what position we shall be in with reference to the Bill. The SPEAKER-It will stand committed to a Committee of the Whole House. Hon. Mr. YOUNG-Let it go at that. We want it to go through. The amendment was declared carried. Hon. Mr. ROSS (Middlesex) moved that the notice be postponed until Tuesday next, and gave notice that he would add to it an inquiry as to what the government intended to do in the matter. Hon. Mr. POWER-The hon. gentleman gives notice of something which is neither a resolution nor a question. The usual way is to call attention to a matter, and then ask a question; but the hon. gentleman does not call attention; he simply gives us an abstract proposition, that the. renewal of railway charters deserves the The hon. consideration of the Senate. gentleman's notice should read that he will call attention to the pracuce, and ask the government if they propose to put a stop to it. The SPEAKER-I would draw the attention of the hon. gentleman from Middlesex to the form of his question as it appears on the order paper. The notice of motion being called: To amend Rule No. 128, by striking out the words the Senate otherwise order,' and inserting the following in lieu thereof : asked by two members of the Senate,' so that it may read as follows: 128. Unless asked for by two members of the Senate, a private Bill reported from a standing or select committee is not committed to a Committee of the Whole House. And the clerk is requested to notify the members of the proposed change in the rules. Hon. Mr. DAVIS-I might say with reference to this matter that I need not go RENEWALS OF RAILWAY CHARTERS. into it very fully because The notice being called: The repeated renewal of railway charters without any substantial expenditure on construction is a matter deserving the consider tion of the Senate. Hon. Mr. LOUGHEED-May 1 ask if the senators have received the notice necesI certainly sary for changing the rule? Some hon. GENTLEMEN-Nor I, nor I. Hon. Mr. DAVIS-If hon. gentlemen will time, and I was given to understand that if I did not take it up to-day it would be dropped, I remained here all afternoon to read the notice they will see that it calls proceed with it, although I had other busi for having the senators summoned. Hon. Mr. LOUGHEED-The hon. gentleman's notice is all right, but several senators have stated that they have not received notice. I am not taking exception to the form of the hon. gentleman's notice, because it is quite regular; but I for one have not received notice. ness demanding my attention. I hope on the next occasion when I bring it up the members will have been summoned in the proper manner. The SPEAKER-There is a motion to that effect which has not been adopted by the Senate. Hon. Mr. CLORAN-This is the third Hon. Mr. DAVIS-I have followed the time this thing has happened when mem rule of the House. bers have given formal notice that the senators be summoned. The hon. senator from Stadacona has asked what procedure should be followed, and there should be some understanding about it. Hon. Mr. FERGUSON-But if the hon. gentleman proceeds without the notice being given, his labour will be all in vain. The House has not been summoned and what the hon. gentleman should do is to postpone his motion; but we ought to know notice was sent out because of rule 29, why the summons has not been issued. The SPEAKER-The hon. gentleman cannot put the motion if the senators have not been called, and I am informed that no notice has been sent out as the motion calls for. Hon. Mr. DAVIS-If anybody in the Senate objects The SPEAKER-There is a rule, No. 29, which precludes the hon. gentleman moving his motion under the circumstances. Hon. Mr. DAVIS-In order to meet the views of some hon. gentlemen, I move that the motion be postponed until Wednesday next and that the clerk be directed to notify the members. Hon. Mr. LANDRY-I should like to know if there is not some way to meet those difficulties. In this case, notice has been regularly given, and I want to know whose duty it is to summon the senators? Must the member who gives the notice go to the clerk and ask him to summon the members, or is the fact that the notice is on the paper sufficient to make it imperative on the clerk to summon the members? Our rules do not prescribe how it shall be done; there should be some understanding on the subject. Hon. Mr. DAVIS-This motion has been on the order paper for quite a length of The SPEAKER-I understand that no which states: irregular to go back to what happened be- will be represented. A commission may be fore the Speaker gave his decision. Hon. Mr. POIRIER-Are we to under stand that an inquiry made by an bon. senator when the subject was properly be: fore the House, is to be passed over, or that a notice properly given by an hon. member is not to be acted upon by an official of the House, because he thinks we are acting improperly? The SPEAKER—There is no such intention on the part of the clerk of the House. He knows that it is his duty to send out these notices. Hon. Mr. POIRIER-He done it then. The SPEAKER-There was a question of the interpretation of a rule on which he could well have his own opinion. Hon. Mr. POIRIER-Is it the clerk of the House who is to decide such matters or the Senate ? The SPEAKER-The Senate has decided. It has passed a resolution to convene the members, and they will be summoned. appointed, but I do not know that it requires legislation. THE RULES OF THE HOUSE. Hon. Sir MACKENZIE BOWELL-Before the Orders of the Day are called, I wish to direct attention to three of our rules which, if properly enforced, would prevent unseemly discussions such as we have had to-day, upon, to my mind a very minor point. I do not wish to be understood as finding fault with the Speaker or any member of the Senate, but I desire to impress on the House the necessity for adhering should have more rigidly to the rules which govern this House. Rule 21 requires that motions must be made in writing. Had the motion of my hon. friend opposite been put in writing, there would have been no doubt as to what was intended. His intention was, as he explained, to give notice of a motion. It was understood by myself and the hon. senator from Stadacona that he had made a distinct motion. Had his motion been in writing, the unseemly discussion which arose upon it would have been avoided. I desire to call the Speaker's attention to rule 16, in which the committee appointed to revise the rules departed from the practice in the House of Lords by which this House is supposed to be governed. In the House of Lords, the Speaker has no power. Each member of the House enjoys all his rights and privileges independent of the Speaker. In the Senate unseemly discussions used to occur, and the committee appointed to revise the rules decided to give the Speaker power to call members to order. I know it is a delicate matter to interfere when discussions take place, but, speaking for myself-and I think I can speak for every member of the House— when a motion is made, the Speaker should gently intimate to the mover, Let me have that in writing and I will put it to the House.' It may cause a little more trouble or inconvenience, but no one would object THE QUEBEC THIRD CENTENNIAL INQUIRY. Hon. Mr. LANDRY inquired: Is it the intention of the government to present during the present session any legislation on the subject of the celebration of the third centenary of the founding of Quebec and for the inauguration of a national park for that purpose? Hon. Mr. SCOTT-I am not aware that it is in contemplation to introduce any legislation on the subject. I presume that the item will appear in the estimates when they are brought down. There is an application now standing before the Privy Council for a subsidy towards the celebration. Hon. Mr. LANDRY-I thought it was the intention of the government to nominate two or three commissioners, and give them certain duties to perform in the way of spending money, and I thought that would be done by legislation. Hon. Mr. SCOTT-I do not know if legislation will be necessary. If the government vote a certain sum, I presume Canada to that, and the Speaker should insist upon the rule being carried out. I desire also to call attention to rule 35, which provides that without the consent of the Senate no member has a right to speak more than once on any subject. Instead of adhering to that rule, we act as if the House were |