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matters had not been overlooked, and that though the head of the Government, was not the bill would be prepared with great care. the whole Government: that there were other His Majesty's Ministers were as desirous as persons in the Cabinet ; and that he (Lord the uoble Lord of maintaining the iuterests Wichlow) had a right to look to the conduct of the church; and from the kuowledge which of those persons when he spoke of the measures their situations placed within their reach, of the Government. He would remind the they were not less acquainted with what those ! voble Lord, that, in the year 1824, a gentleinterests required than the noble Baron him.man in the other House of Parliament, who self. They thought that they were doing that in was not much attached to the church, bor, he obtaining the extraordinary powers for which miglil say, perhaps, to any other of the estabthey proposed to apply, and in what way the lishments of the country, made a motion of a exercise of those powers was to be limited, revolutionary tendency, being for a committee remained matter for the consideration of the to inquire whether the clergy of the EstabHouse when the hill should have been suh. lished Church in Ireland were not too nuinermitted to their Lordships. But at the same ous and too higbly paid. The motion was, of time that the Government was desirous of course, negatived, and iu the minority was giving the clergy immediate relief, it was not found the noble Lord now upon the woolsack, intended to collect any tithes except those and other members of the present Cabinet. which had been illegally withheld. Tu doing (Hear, hear.) Was it wonderful, then, that that the Government was maintaining the au- people looked at the acts of a Ministry so con, thority of the law, and giving the clergy av stiluted with some degree of appreheusion, and opportunity of recovering, under the law, the especially when they heard the noble Earl, in other tithes which were previously due. He the spirit of prophecy, waru the Beuch of Biobjected to that irregular discussion of a mea shops to put their houses in order? (Cheers.) sure which was not yet before the House, and Was it to be wondered that, under such cirespecially when that discussion was introduced cumstances, people looked with some auxiety in such a spirit, (hear,) by a noble Lord re- for a declaration on the part of Ministers of an presenting as a revolutionary measure a bill intention to maintain the rights of the church? which would have no other objects than the It was their duty to have made such a declaramaintenance of the law, the protection of the tion ; aud their not doing so had spread alarm, church, and the preservation of tranquillity! which they now, by a mea-ure which he would (Hear.) Let their Lordships look to the revo- still call a revolutiou, were endeavouring to lutionists of which the cominittee was com reinove. (Cheers.) The noble Earl seemned posed. (Cheers.) Were their Lordships to to attribute to him (Lord Wicklow) some part believe that those noble persons were the ene- in the present proceedinys in Ireland. He mies of the clergy, desirous to shake the supposed the noble Lord 10 allude to the Profuupilations of the land, and to subvert every testant meetings which bad lately taken place thing essential to good government? He in that country. He was not a member of any trusted that the House would not be influenced of those societies, nor bad he attended their by the nuble Earl (Lord Wicklow), but would meetings. The puble Lord seemed to attribute come dispassionately to the consideration of to the voblemen of high rank and influeuce the bill wbich would be subunitted to their who attended those meetings, the spreading of Lordships, with a view to maintain the laws, the report that the Goverument entertained to restore peace to Ireland, and to establish a views hostile to the church. Of that he new arrangemeot, by which the clergy would knew nothing. But this he would say, be placed not only in greater security as re- that no mau regretted more than be did spected their income, but in circumstances out the necessity for the revival of those soexposing them to a collision with the occupiers cieties in Irelaud. Bilt they had not been of the laud. (Hear, hear.)
revived without great cause. He thought ihat The Earl of Wicklow trusted that he would their re-organization was mainly owing to the be permitted to make some observations upon conduct of the Government itself. “(Hear, what bad fallen froin the noble Earl who had bear.) He believed that so long as the people just sat duwn, au who had cast on him impu- of that couutry thought that they had a watchtations which were not justified by anything ful Goverunient guarding over their interests, that he had said. He hail cast no impuiations and that societies which were agitating Ireupon the noble Lords oppositc. He believed laud were but evils incidental to the constithat there never was a set of men who ucder. tution, so long the loyal portion of the people took such arduous duties with more sincere remained tranquil. (Hear, hear.) But when and zealous dispositions to discharge them for be saw the Goverument lending itself to those the good of the country. The noble Earl associations (hear), and giving their support (Grey) said that he had always been a friend and confidence tú those who were their eueto the church. Now he (Lord Wicklow) was mies, and the decided enemies of the country Dot sufficiently acquainted with the history of when they saw men of that description that House, or with the political life of the (cheers) made the objects of the favour and Doble Earl, or with bis conduct when in oppo- patronage of the Government when the head sition, to give the noble Earl's statement the l of the Goverument stood up in that House, support of his humble vestimony. But then it and said that the leader of those associativos was to be cousidered that the noble Earl, was fitted, by his talents and learning, for any
office under any Government, setting no value that although he believed that he voted for upon integrity or loyalty (as the noble Lord, the motion, whatever it was, because the Wicklow, was understood to say), as if these noble Earl said so, yet sure he was that it were no requisites for office—then the Prutest-could have no such object as the noble Lord ants of Ireland thought it was time for the supposed. He never could have voted for to look to the security of their rights and pre- any motiou of which the object was to destroy perty. (Cheers.) He would never be pre- the property of the church, or to impair the vented from doing his duty as a Peer of that security of the other institutions of the country. House, and expressing his opinions fr«ely, by (Hear.) He would undertake to assure the speers and taunts, even wben they came from noble Lord, that the resulution which he on the noble Earl at the heart of his Majesty's that occasion voted for, whatever it might Goverument, whiu), although he complained of have been, had no such teudeney. (Hear.) thein, dealt as much in them as any other But when he looked to the state of Irelaod, Member of their Lordships' House.
and of the church of Ireland, and the diiThe Lord CuANCELLOR should only detain ficulties which obstructed the establishment their Lordships by reply'd briefly to what the of peace and gooi governm nt in tbat country, noble Earl who just sat down had said respect-aud when he saw some iriends of the church ing his conduct when a Member of the other endeavouring i engress to themselves all House of Parliament. Ile would not complain credit for good intentions to its cause, he that the allusion of the noble Earl to him was must say that one observation occurred to his very inconvenient and irregular. It was not mind, which was, that the friends of the so much the Goverument as the report of the peace of Ireland, and of good government in committee that was the object of the boble Ireland, and of the Establibed Church in Earl's attack. The words “extinction of Ireland, had good reason to pray that they tithes" were the words of the report. (Ilear, might have any oiber friends raiher than those. hear.) If those words had not been in the (Clieers.) report of the committee, “ trust me," said the The Duke of BUCKINGHAM thought that the noble and learned Lori, “your Loruslins report should have been more complete ilian Dever would have heard the attach." But it now was before itwas laid on their Lord even so, the wor:'s being in the report, the ato ships' table. It stated great evils, but it laid tack was really niade upon the committee, down do principles by which th:sse evils could and not upon the Government. But the words be pui au end to. Jis this state that report were so qualified that it was impossible to would go forth to the world, and would not suppose that “extinction " was used in the tend to allay those party feelings which odious sense, or that it was meant to signify existed in Ireland. The noble Carl Conne the destruction of church.property: It was plained olibe subject, exciting party feerings, plainly the meaning of the committee that but be lped thoirt to that degree of party tiihes should su be extinguinted by a come feelings which was necessary 10 preverse the mutation to seme other mode of payment, Established Church it would be exposed. He which should be attended with less in- 'hail vo pariy teelings on the subject, and the convenience to ail parties, and with more se- nolle Barl would pardon niin tiiat he could curity to the church. He (the Luri Chancel. not look to the messere as a source of security Jor) bad hai no connexion with the commit- and tranquillity; he could not look at it as tee, but then it seemed that, in th other calculated to realise the hopes and expectaHouse of Parliament, he had voted with some tions which had beeu excited ; and looking other Gentlemen, lu whom he did not believe back at the measures adopted in Irelandthe words useal hy the mobile Earl (Wicklow) looking at the state of that country-looking were aptly applied, (Huar.) He did not be- at the vacillation of the Guvernment of Irelieve that those gentlemen were euemies of land, taking up and laying down measures the church, or that the object was to pull as that great ayilator of Ireland dictated, who down the church, and not only the church, had acknowledged himself guilty of breaking but all the other instirutions of ihe country. the law-looking at the Government after
Lord Wicklow made some explanation, wards courting his bollow asi-tance to secure which was not heard in ihe railery.
the country areiust agitation - looking at The Lord CUANCELLOR was giad that he these things, could be expect from the mea. had misunderstood the noble Earl. Tweed sures now propospel tranquillity for Irelard he should be very glad to hear that the poble' and security for ihe Potestant eburch: lle Earl meant to say something the very cool should not have said so much had it not been trary to what he had understood him io say for the eagerness of the noble Earl. if the (a laugh); hut in lois ears, the words of the report of ihe Committee mentioned the expoble Lord sounded very like these (a laugh) tinction of tithes, be might complaiu that one " that the gentlemen who proposed the motion day the plau was comm' talivyn and another was no friend to the church, nor to the other extinction. (Hear, hear.)
Formerty it was institutions of the counry; and that the exijuction, now it was commuiation No, no.) object of the notion was revolutionary.” The mobile Earl was uot consistent in his Now be didl pot koow at that moment what statements. (No, ne), and laughter.) might have been the precise nature of a Earl Grey said he had not said one word motion made so long ago; but this he knew, about the extinction or commutativo.
The Duke of Buckingham had formerly | lousy of this plan, and that it was the beard of extinctiou, and uow beard of commu- opinion of all those interested for the wel. tation. (Hear, bear.) The ouble Earl had not fare of Ireland that the tithe system could shown bow tithes were to be commuted. In not be coutinued. It was said that the the present state of Ireland he did not think languaye was different, and that both extincsuch a scheme could last forty-eight hours. tion and coinmutation has been mentioned; Whea they promulgated the report they were he had not seen any objectionable phrases of bound to stale -considering the situation and this kind. His noble Friend had not used the anxiety of Irelao.l--they were bound tu slate word extinctions, but the committee had. The to what extent the ineasures were to go which report of the coininittee used both phrases, they contemplaled. (Hear, hear.) He came both extinction and commutation. This was down to the House vuly intending to put the a piain proposition, which he saw no difficulty question to the noble Earl which he would in understanding. Was it l'air, w state that they ask, which was - when did the noble Eari the Government wished to injure she church, intend to explain to the House the plau he had when it raised expectations of putting an end in contemplation ?
to daily coufiicts between the clergy and the Lord PLUNKETT wished to say, with respect people, and when it endeavoured to restore to the language used by his noble Friend (Earl peace? Would it injure the character of the Grey) ou a former occasion, that it was not inivisiers of God, who were engaged in interpossible for any language to be more industri preting the Word of Gud tu ihe people? or ously mi-represented, though it was the most would it injure the interests of the church to gratefully accepted by cheers from the other take away these sources of coufict? Would side. He would not enter into his noble not the instruction of the clergy be more corFriend's views, but only say, that ihe lan-dially received by the people if this source of guage he then used was exactly ibe same as dispute did not exist ? With respect to the what he had now said. There were persons Government of Ireland, he wished that some in Ireland of two opposite factions, who were tacts were stated, some plain proposition adrechless of all the consequences to the peacevanced, so me proof given, that it had and tranquillity of the country if their party weglected to protect the rigtits of the clergy. views were successful. Ilis noble Friend isad He begged that some instances might be given never altered his sentiments, or given on the of cases in which the law alior led the means one hand the smallest reason to believe that in of protecting the clergy, and the Government bis opinion the just rights of the church had refused its aid. The fact was, that by the ought to be abandoned; wor, on the other raye of party ívelings, Ireland was toro to haud, had his noble Friend ever uttered a sen pieces. They lost sight of her interest to timent which could make it be supposed that ihwart every Government which did not the just expectations of the people were not to bumble itself before one or the other party. be attended to. The proceedings of the com- That was the feeling of these parties; but mittee confirmed bis noble Frie::d's veclara- they forgot that there was a thini party-the tion. Relief was, in the first instancı, pro- people of Ireland, whose interest demanded posed to be given to the sullering clergy by the the care of the Government. There was the Governmeui-the Governmut ialving on itself party of Protestant a scendancy, and the party
prosecute the rights of the clerzs. At the of the democracy, and they were both hostile same time it was declared-and this was there to the Government, which, for once, was in opinion of all reasonable men, it was contes ed opposition to both. This was the cause of the by the clergy themselves--that there was no complaines made against the Irish Governsecurity for the church -10 safety for the medi. There was no person more firmly atestablishment, unle-s the system ortishes was tached to all the best interests of Ireland thau extinguished.' lle was far from insinuating the Marquis of Augle-ea. If i jury were that the wo'le Duke, bin noble friend of be offered to the clergy, and assistance were demight so call him, would wiliully misrepresent man'led, it was immediately and promptly what had fallen froin the noble Earl-the whole given. Let their Lorristips' look ai lhe eviCuurie of his life, and bis krvat stake ia buih Jence before the committee, aud not run away cruntries, would not admit of any mau furin. with vague Lotions, and they would tid the ing such an opinion ; but he dil eutreat his fact stateu by persons of different ranks, that Doble Friend to cousider whether lie was pro.there was a suspiciou that the Goverurnent moting the interest of the church by holding would not support ile clergy. I say they have his present language. Tie clergy of ireland, wo instance in which assistance båd not been he couici assure wis poble Friend, would nove viven. The charge wils, that the Government cousider thuse their friends who made ure or did not support the rights of the clergy; but it. The clergy of Ireland were grateful to the if it: uir Lordships would not listen to the wild Goveroment for what it had done. If any suzuestions of party feeling, but w the evibody thought that the clergy were not cun-dence, they would tind that there was no in. tented witii what the Govervinent had done, stunce of the Governmeut baving ever refused be was mistaken. Ti nobile Lords would to do so. They had beard much of lawless wait till they read the evidence given by associations of the agitaturs, but he would several churchmu before the cominittee, undertake to say, that there were other assothey would find that there was uo jea- ciations still more lawless. (Hear, bear.)
There was the lawless democracy association had been willing to go; but to say that the and the lawless ascendency association. The Government had humbled itself before that democracy association wicked, mis- individual, was most untrue. He called theo, chievous, aud dangerous. He had often upou the uble Lord, to put his finger oo any looked at it with apprehension; but it was
act of the Goveromeut in which it had not mixed up, lawl.ss as it was, with some real supported the laws. He was sure that the grievances. It inigh: be said, why did the law interest of the clergy had been supported in por pul it down? The law had been applied, Ireland, though the Protestants of the North hut they could not go heyond the la:v, and of Ireland had made some loud coinplaints, they must take away the grievance. He saw These persous called themselve- the guardians some necessity for this association ; but of the public peace, and they assuciated to put without imputing bad motives to the other an end to the peace of the country. He had party, charity eveu obliged him to say, that looked through their proceedings—be had they were the most senseless class of asso. examined their speeches, abstracting himself ciations that he had ever heard of. He was from other business, and he could openly de. af aid of the former, but he could not possinly clare that be had not found one intelligible feel any respect for the latter. One specific proposition in all their proceedings. They person had been pointed out, a person of whoin called out for protection from the law-they it was said the Government was afraid, and called out to preserve the coustitutior-but before whom the Government was described they did not establish any infraction of the to humble itself. He was the last person who laws, or point out any remedy which could be could be expected to panegyrize the individual adopted.' The Government was beset by eue. alluded to, for he had never hesitated to do mies on both sides (hear, hear), but the good bis duty towards the public, though it might feeling of the great body of the people of all be against that individual. In tuc fulfilment the sound and intelligent and seasible part of that duty, when he held a situation differ. of the population, was in its favour, as it ent from liis present situation, he had insti- looked to them for support. If the Govern. tuted a prosecution a ainst that individual, ment did not show any favour to either party and be could tell their Lorships how that --if it at once protected the clergy and pro prosecution was defeated. It was defeated tected the people, he had no apprehensivu of because, is the spirit of thwarting the Goveru- the results. (Ilear.) ment, the opposite party took up the defence The Duke of BUCKINGHAM explained that of its greatest enemy, and prevented that he did not say that both extinction aud cuide public good being effected. (Hear, hear.) He mutation had been spoken of hy the wble wished to tell their Lordships that it was not Earl (Grey); but he stated that the noble so easy to catch that person within the law. Earl had live mentioned extinction, and bis He had carefully observed bis proceedings for colleagues in the other House had. many years, and he would declare, as a con The Earl of CARNARVON could not but esstitutional lawyer, that he had ouly found one press his surprise that such warm lauguage occasion ou which he thought that individual should be used in a debate which bau gruva could be successfully prosecuted. He was up so incidentally. If the Government were successfully prosecuted, and nothing but the to act on the principles it professed; if it were expiration of the Act of Parliament prevented to pursue that even-handed justice the puble him from being brought up for punishment. Lord had ascribed to it, he should be sorry to (Hear, hear.) "With respect to ihe Guveru. see any ineasure it proposed for the public goud neut not daring to execute the law, he would opposed in limine from party animosity. He only say that it did not dare to go beyond the could not, however, agree with the able law. It was said that the Government had Lord, in ascribiug that character to the Gooffered a place to that geutleigan, which was verament; and he could not help feeling that a report without foundation. Much as be the laugoage indulged in by the noble Lord condemued the oonduct of that individual, he was calculated to alarm the already irritated must say that, as far as he knew, the declara- Protestants. The puble Lord hand described tiou formerly made by bis nuble Friend was them as men more deficient in intellect tban strictly true. The professional pursuits and any he had ever beheld. (Hear.) professional reputation of that gentleman were Lord PLOSKETT denied that he had ascribed so great, that nobody ranked higher. As a such a character to the Protestants; he had practical barrister, his reputation eulitled him only said that in their speeches he could wi to the highest place. To indulge in angry find ove intelligible proposition. feelings was not, hic believed, the best means The Earl of CARNARVON was glal to hear of conducting affairs to a satisfactory result; any explanation (bear, bear); but he wished and looking to the situation to which the that the language of the uoble Lord had been general business of that person would entitle more temperate. The poble Lord would not him, be thought it would be advantageous, if say that the party of the Protestants were sev, means could be found, to disarmı him of mis. when he sawthe petition against the measures chief. If the Government could have done of Government signed hy 235,00Protestants. that, it would have been acting a wise part to That was not an indication of a defect in their place that gentleman in a situation where his understanding, nor of that senseless character oppositiou would cease. To that extent be which the puble Lord bad noJestly ascribed
to them. They showed that they justly ap. (Ireland-(The Earl of Carnarvon did not say
Dewsbury, 2'st Feb. 18.32.
observed the rage of Lord Wicklow, whole year these proceedings bad been going whom the Ministers have just made a on, the Goverument found the law not effi- Lord Lirutenant of a county! He is cient, and it bad come to ask for fresh powers. extremely angry that the Report seems After this state of things had continued a whole year, the noble Earl came down and to call the titres a grirvance;" but, said, if he found that his powers were not as such the people consider them, and sufficient to put down these disorders, he as such they refuse to pay them. As would not shriuk from applying to Parliament such they are considered in Enyland for more power. (Hear, hear.) He had submitted to excitement and agitation for a whole woo; and the Orangemen, the bloody year; rebellion had not been arrested, but Orange bands, will lie and swear in vain, fostered; and now, at the end of a year's | to make the people of England believe professious, the Government doubled whether that this is a question of Catholic it should apply for greater power. If the Government made the applicatiou to Parliament, against PROTESTANT: they know that it would find that no power would be refuser it is a question of tithe-payers ayainst -do establishment with held by those whom it tithe-receivers : they themselves are generally considered in opposition to it; and anxious to get rid of this intoler:ible if any opposition were made, it would come from those to whom it was accustomed to look
load: they themselves have presented as its political friends. The noble Lord said hundreds of petitions, praying for the that the agitator was not punished, because abolition of tithes: to use the words of the law expired; but how did it expire? By the able and learned Evitor of the the most hasty, impatient proceeding of the ministers. (Hear, hear.) They bad termi
“ Church ReFORMERS' MAGAZINE," the bated the Parliament abruptly, and lost the people of England clearly see, that “the opportunity of re-enacting the law. The “ people of Ireland are, in truth, now noble Lord concluded by stating that he saw contending, not for their own rights Do ground for confiding in ministers ;
only, but also for those of the people of saw any determination, on its part, to put down the rebellious spirit that prevailed in
England ; and that circumstances Ireland, he should be really to give his sup; alone have placed the Irish in the port to the measure proposed. He regretted to say that hitherto the policy of the present
front of the battle.” Government had been not to give that support
Lord Wicklow (I wonder what his to tlie Protestants of Ireland they had a right name is!) may be assured of the truth of ceived. (Hear, hear.) expect, and which they had formerly re- this; and he may be also assured, that The Marquis of ClanRICARDe complained exults in the prospect of success to the
every honest heart in Eugland now towards the Goverument, who had said that just, legal, and laudable efforts of our rebellion had been fustered and encouraged in :usering brethren in Ireland. I hope
if he 66