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able to make the people pay them what yourselves beforehand, and to come forthey have demanded in tithes. Observe, ward with petitions, praying that this that this must necessarily extend itself measure may not be adopted.

The to lay-impropriations, as well as parsons; Editor of the Church Reformers' Maso that, if resistance have extended gazine has observed that, “ circuminto his parishes, the Duke of Devon- "stances alone have placed the Irish shire will, of course, have to receive" people in the front of the battle; and his share of this advanced money. Af- “ that the people of Ireland are now conter this what have we not to expect? |“ tending, not for their own rights only, If a law to this effect shall pass, who is “ but also for those of the people of to assure us that the next law will not “ England.” Be you, therefore, I pray be a son.ething to compel us to make you, on the alert, and let not this bill good out of the taxes any rents which pass, without such remonstrance on your the great Irish landlords may be unable part, as it becomes you to make on this to screw out of their tenants? If the very important occasion. parson be a sleeping partner, and if his The eighth paragraph, or closing pashare of the revenue is to be advanced ragraph of the report, winds up the out of the taxes, upon what ground is climax. In the first place it recommends this same Parliament to refuse to pay a law to cause a complete extinction of the active partner his share out of the tithes. That is good. That is what the taxes also. Upon the principle of this parliament has a clear right to do, seeproposed law, the industrious classes of ing that the tithes are public property the nation are to become bound for the to all intents and purposes ; and that due payment of rents as well as of they are held in trust for the purposes tithes.

of upholding religion, and of relieving Aye, but the sixth paragraph provides the poor. If the report had stopped a means of repayment to us! We are here, therefore, it would have afforded to be repaid by money levied, by virtue matter for high.commendation on those of a new loan from those who have not who drew it up; and it would have duly yielded their tithes. Now, what argued great wisdom on the part of security have we that those who have the Government ; seeing that all men not duly yielded their tithes will be are now satisfied that tithes must be found upon the spot? What security put an end to. But the report, instead have we that they will have wherewith of stopping here, goes on to recommend to pay, even supposing them to be com- that, in lieu of' tithes, a CHARGE shal! pelled to yield to the force of this new be established upon the land! So that act of Parliament? Supposing them to the parsons will no longer be sleeping be found upon the spot; and supposing partners ; they will be real co-propriethem still to have ability to pay, then, lors: they will no longer have a claim as the seventh paragraph tells us, the merely upon the produce of the land, Attorney-General is to have the power but will be part-owners of the land itself; to proceed to levy, by petition in the and no bequest, no alienations, no transCourt of Chancery, or in the Court of fer or assignment of land can take Exchequer, or by civil bill at the Quar- place without their being a party to the ter Sessions. In neither case, I sup- transaction. At present, they have a pose, is he to be troubled with a jury; claim merely upon the increase. They but, certainly, he may avoid that trouble have by degrees most enormously exif he choose by petition to the Court of tended that claim : they have, at last

, Chancery. I beseech you, my readers taken four times as much, in the shape in England, to look well at this mat- of tithe, as is taken in either Italy or ter; to look at this measure as pre. Spain ; but still their claim is only upon paratory for you ; as providing be- the increase, and not upon the land forehand a precedent for the case itself. If I, for instance, bave a farm, which, it is foreseen, will arise in Eng- and if it produce nothing, either from bad land; and I beseech you 10 prepare seasons, or from my want of means to

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cultivate it, the parson has nothing, be- or not, the owners are compelled to pay cause there is nothing for him to have; him his rent-charge.

He is co-pro he cannot take my goods; he cannot prietor with fourscore persons in his send me to jail; he cannot sell my parish. And thus it must be in every farm, in order to make up for his want parish ; and thus the aristocracy, who of tithes ; because he has no claim other have hitherto taken the increase of the than upon that which the land produces. land, would thus be enabled to take the But pass the law, and he is co-proprietor iand itself. with me; he has a rent-charge upon' my

These Ministers never can have perfarm; he sues me for arrear of rent, ceived the extent to which this would whether I have crop or not; and he pro- go. Can they, for instance, have foreceeds till he has taken froin me my seen what would take place in the city farın : so that such a law, if passed, will of London? There the tithe is so much actually take away a part of every man's in the pound upon the raek-rent; at estate ; take it away as completely as if least, it is so in several of the parishes.

a mortyage upon every Will the act suffer that enormous opestate ; and, in fact, as we shall pre pression to remain ? Will it leave the sently see, this would be an act of ge- everlasting litigation still to be going on neral confiscation against the middle there; or will it make the parson coclass of the community.

proprietor with all the owners of houses Let us look a little at the church, or and wharfs and stables and warehouses rather at the clergy; and see who they in London. The same in Westminster ; are. Let us see of the whole eight or the same in Marybonne; the same in ten millions a year which they receive, every country town, and in every city how small is the proportion which has and town in the kingdom; and thus, fallen to the lot of anybody but the under the name of clergy, the aristocracy aristocracy, their relations, and depend- will have a co-proprietorship in every

Let us see what numerous great square inch of real property in the kinglivings ; what immense quantities of dom. I do pray you, my English readtithes belong to the deans and chapters; ers, not to regard this as merely an Irish let us see how very small a part of the concern. It is an English concern. lay-impropriations belongs to anybody the act be passed, it inust be meant to but the aristocracy. In short, with be applied to us; for, as to the continusome very trilling exceptions, the whole ance of tithes in England, after they is theirs ; and, if this act were to pass, it shall have been extinguished in Ireland, would be an act to take away a part of the thing is utterly impossible. If the the estate of every man in the middle monstrous attempt should be made, the rank of life, and to give it to the aristo- occupiers of the land in England would cracy. Observe, this law would reach demand a corn-bill against Ireland, No property of all holdings : freehold, co. matter for explanations upon the subpyhold, leasehold, houses, mills, canals, ject; tithes having been extinguished mines, every species of property, in the in Ireland would be quite enough ; so whole of which the nobility and their that here, if there were no other, would relations and dependents would become, arise a cause of absolute necessity for all at once, co-proprietors with the extinguishing the tithes in England;

In the parish of Betley, for and then would come the rent charges, instance, there are several farms, owned and, in fact, a division of our property by so many persons. There are some amongst the aristocracy. The radicals small; some very small, some cottages have been accused of 'views of spoliamerely, with gardens. Froin all these tion; they have been accused of a desire the parson takes tithes, and they amount to seize and divide the property of the altogether to probably four score in rich; the mad Spenceans proposed to number. Let ibis law pass, and then make the land “the people's farm ;" he has four score rent charges in his but, until now, never did it come into parish; and, whether they have crop, the mind of man, to take the property




of the middle class, of the small pro-working classes a share in making the prietors, down even to the cottager, and laws, it appears that they are projecting to compel him to share it with the aris- a bill by which the whole of the real tocracy; and thal, too, under the pre- property is to be caused to be shared by tence of its being necessary to uphold the aristocracy. the church of Christ.

What, good God! are the inconveni. Let us, for a moment, take just a sences, the turmoils, the dangers, the glance at the manner in which the thing mischiefs, which this church has not would work in Ireland. Lay tithes, as caused to this kingdom and this kingly well as clerical tithes, are to be “ extin- Government! From its very foundaquished in this way. The Duke of tion it has been the cause of all the Devonshire bas, according to a state great troubles, dangers, and difficulties ment made by himself in the House of of the country. During the reigns of Lords, the great tithes of twenty pa- Elizabetli and James I., it convulsed the rishes in Ireland. Suppose there to be country by the measures adopted for sefifty pieces of real property in each curing itself against the people's attachparish, his Grace instantly becomes nient to the Catholic faith. Charles I. possessed of a thousand rent-charges in owed his sad fate to the attempts of the those parishes : he becomes co-pro church to establish its lofty dominiou. prietor with a thousand persons in James II. was hurled from his throne those parishes. He was only entitled because, and only because, he was a to the increase before ; but now he Catholic, and was suspected of hostile becomes lord of the soil! Suppose feelings with regard to the church. To one of the farms in one of those parishes preserve this church, it stands recorded to be sold in twenty lots, how is the in acts of Parliament, was the main obrent-charge to be dividerl? Who will ject of the revolution of 1688. To prepurchase under such circumstances? In serve this church, the wars were undershort, it is evident that in a very few taken by William; and those wars proyears it would not be so much a divi- duced the Bank and the National Debt; sion as a confiscation of the whole pro- and the act of Parliament which created perty. Then turn to England, where these, tells us that they were created for there are noblemen who own the tithes, the express purpose of upiwlding the great or small, of probably a hundred | Protestant church; just as we are now parishes each. The Church Reformers' told that a rent-charge upon all our proMagazine tells us that there are 4,845 perty is become necessary, in order to

livings out of 11,700, or thereabouts, uphold the rights of that church. All the in England and Wales, which former penal laws against the Catholics had nuniber are in the possession of clerical ihe same foundation, and no other. corporations or of laymen; and these The millions upon millions, and tens livings are, too, amongst the largest, and twenties of millions, of taxes and are chiefly owned by the deans and wrung from English labour, and ex. chapters or by the aristocracy, there pended to keep up an army in Ireland, being 3,845 of them in the hands of mere had no other object than that of upholdlaymen. Thus, then, all the real pro- ing this church against the will of the perty in more than one-half of the king-people; and now, at last, when the dom of England and Wales, would, if universal feeling of the people will this projeci were to become a law, be endure it no longer, as a collector of to be shared with the aristocracy: they tithes, it is proposed to turn these would have a direct lien upon the whole tithes into a rent-charge ; and under of it; they would be co-proprietors ; that name, take away a part of every and, in a very short time they would man's estate! From its very beginning become the sole owners of the whole; it was that which it has continued to and thus, while this Whig Ministry have be; thus it will be to the end; but we before the Parliament a bill, by which have now the consolation of knowing they profess to give the middle and that that end cannot be distant.

It now remains to be seen whether men that will do the things that want the people of Eng and be willing to to be done for the good of the country. have their eslates shared with them by The petition, which was presented by the aristocracy, or whether they be not. Lord Morpeth, (inserted in another part I recommend to sensible persons in the of the Register,) seemed to be a very several parishes of England, just to good TEST. Therefore, when I was make out a list of the several farms, at Halifax, on the 4th Feb., to which and other parcels of real properly in place Mr. Many of Leeds and another their respective parishes. I my.elf gentleman brought me an address of should go to work in this way: I thanks from a society of refor:ners at should make out the list in the manner Leeds, I, hearing that Mr. Macaulay was that I have just mentioned, calculate looked upon as a candidate for Leeds, the amount of the tithe upon the seve-recommended them frankly to make ral parcels of property; and then, when application to him, to know if he were the Irish bill be brought in, describe to ready to move or support a nieasure in the several owners of property what accordance with thai petition ; and when they had to expect; and ask them, I came to Leeds, 1 inquired of these whether they were willing that the same gentlemen whether they had reparson should become a co-proprietor ceived an answer to this letter, which I of their lands and houses. Those of had recommended them to write. I them who would like this, would of found that they had not; but I found, at course remain silent; but ihose who the same time, that the letter had been would not like it, ought instantly to sent to him in an unofficial manner, and petition against the passing of such a therefore I recommended the sending of bill. They ought to be told that a a second letier, and not until then to great lord, who might be owner of the look upon his silence as a negative ; becorn-tithes of the parish, would become cause, for my part, I should be willing, a co-proprietor with them, and that were an elector of Leeds, to choose they could no longer call their house or Mr. MACAULAY, if he gave his cordial land their own.

In the case of a vi- assent to that petition. Another letter carage, they ought to be told that there was written upon this recommendation, would be two co-proprietors, the parson enclosing the former letter, the two and the lay-impropriator; so that there being in the following words :would be two rent-charges upon every

Leeds, February 8th, 1832. man's estate in every such parish ; and

“Sir,--At a meeting of the Radical such parishes exist in more than one

“ Reformers of Leeds, held on the 7th third part of England and Wales.

“inst., it was resolved, that application It may be said that I am fighting

“ should be made to you, in order to against a shadow; for, that such a law

“ obtain an answer from you to the can never be passed. I hope such a lav“ following questions, namely :cannot be passed; but while I know it

Will you, if elected a member for to be possible, it is my duty to explain

“ the borough of Leeds, make or supthe consequences of such a law, and to port, during the first session of Parcall upon any countrymen to oppose it

“ liament, a motion for an application by all the legal means in their power.

“ of the church-property in Ireland, WN. COBBETT.

" agreeably to the petition agreed to “at Leeds, on the 8th of January last,

“ and presented to the House of ComMR. MACAULAY

mons by Lord Morpeth, on the 17th

• of the same month ? LEEDS.

“ In pursuance of this resolution, I,

“ Sir, most respectfully request that you Tais gentleman has been talked of as “ will be pleased to send me an answer a member for this fine and opulent town. ": to the above question, that I may, The people are disposed to choose the “ without loss of time, communicate it


“ I ans,


" to that numerous and respectable body,“ to me just and politic, that strict re- the Radical Reformers of Leeds, spect should be paid to eristing inter


esls, So strong and decided is my “ Your very humble, " opinion on this subject, that I would

" &c. &c. &c. “ far rather pass my whole life out of T. B. Macaulay, Esq., M. P."

“ Parliament, than be a party to a meaLeeds, 23rd February, 1832.

sure, which should turn the present in “Sir,- As Secretary to the Radical Re

cuinbents out of their benefices. I should

“ consider such a measure as a distinct “ form Union of Leeds, I transmit you; - act of robbery ; and in no such act will " above, a copy of a letter sent to you by a member of our body, on the sth inst.; for any objects, be concerned. The

I ever, under any circumstances, or “ informing you, at the same time, that " insecurity of property is, I am con“ we have been greatly surprised at your « vinced, a far greater evil than the

not having given any answer to the said letter, and requesting that you to me, therefore, that before we can,

heaviest public burdens. It appears “ will be pleased to forward an answer to me, so that I may lay it before the

“ with propriety, apply the revenue of “ Union on Monday evening next, when

'any benefice to the purposes of the a meeting is to be held for the pur- death of the existing incumbent, or

state, we must either wait for the pose of receiving that answer. “ I am, Sir,

compensate him for the loss which he “ Your most obedient servant,

sustains by buying up his life in. “ William Rider,


“ Whether you will approve of these “ Secretary to the Leeds Radical Reform Union.

opinions, I know not. But, I trust, “Stay-ınaker, 37, Lemon-street, Leeds.

“ that I shall not suffer in your esteem

account of the frankness with “ To T. B. Macaulay, Esq. M.P., London."

“ which I have declared them.

“ I have the honour to be, On Monday, the 27th of February, Mr. Rider received from Mr. Macau

“ Your obedient, humble servant, LAY the following answer, of which he

T. B. MACAULAY. was so good as to give a copy to me, and which copy I lay before my

"To Mr. W. Rider, readers :

37, Lemon-street, Leeds." London, February 25, 1832. Without imputing to the Govera“Sir,--The letter, respecting which ment the doctrines and intentions de:

you inquire, has never reached me. veloped in this letter, it is quite clear “ Had I received it, I should have in that this letter proves that Mr. Macau: “stantly acknowledged it.

JAY is by no means prepared to move or To your question iny answer is this. support à measure in accordance with “ I think that the establisheel church of the petition presented by Lord Mor“ Ireland requires a complete reform ; peth. He is for retaining the bene“and that it is both just and expe- fices of the incumbents; he will not “ dient that a large portion of the eccle- consent to touch what he calls existing “siastical property in that country interests ; just as if there were an exist" should be applied to public purposes. ence in the thing at all, except in as far To what public purposes ihis fund as appertains to the increase ; that is to

may, with most advantage, be ap- say, the productions of the earth, after “plied, is a question which requires deducting the seed. Mr. MACAULAY “inuch consideration, and respecting talks of the importance of“ the security “ which I must decline giving any pledge. of property," and so, all idea of holy " I think it right to add, that, in any uses ; 'all idea of relief to the poor; all "new arrangement which may be made idea of tithes being applied to the re

respecting the Irish church, it seems pair of the churches; these are to be all

o Sir,


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