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that country. (Loud cries of “ Hear,'hear.") we on coming into office found, had long That is the true cause of the difficulties under accumulated under preceding Goveroments, which Ireland at present labours, aud I will and that none, including that of the noble tell the noble Earl that, as long as that agita- Duke, bad been able to find a satisfactory tion is permitted to continue, he may double remedy for them. (Hear, bear.) I did not and triple the army in it-be may resort to say, my Lords, that no attempts had been measures of severity, but I tell hjin it will be made to find the remedy, nor did I charge the jo vain ; he must first put down that agitation. Adininistration of the noble Duke with the (Cheers.) A noble Baron the other night said, neglecting having essayed to pacify that counby way of compliment to the fair play of the try. (Hear.). It is true, I did not allude to people of Ireland, that they were willing to pay the T'ithes Composition Act at all. That was rents, and that they had no desire to deprive passed io 1823, and promised for a time to be any man of his property. (Ilear, hear.) But, successful; but I ask the noble Lords well my Lords, I wish t kuuw wbat property is acquainted with the state of Ireland if that more secured by the law of the land than Aci has vot long since ceased to work benetithes ? (Hear, hear.) It is a property to the ficially, and if the omission by the House of preservation of which the King has sworn. Commons of the compulsory clause has not (Hear.) It was not many mouths since the produced disconteut iu nany places, and King swore to defend the properties and rights been the main feature of the oppositivo wbich of the clergy. (Cheers.)' of the clergy, my has since become su alarming? (Hear, hear.) Lords, above all other classes in the commu- That the oppositiou to the collection of titbes nity. (Hear, bear.) My Lords, you will recolo has been more systematic and violent since lect that in the Acts of Parliament hy which the period of 1830, when we came iu to office, Dissenters froin the church of England were I am willing to admit, but I say it originated admitted to the full participation of the bene: in causes with which we have nothing to do. fits of the Constitution, au vath was introduced (Hear, bear.) The noble and learned Lord which was intended to secure the property of opposite (thé Earl of Eldon) may shake his the church, including that of tithes. (Hear.) bead, and try to throw the blame on the preTherefore, I say, if there is any principle iu sent Administration, but with every respect to our laws, it is ove which applies to the pos- that voble and venerable Lord, I must repeat session of church-property, and above all to that the opposition to the collection of tithes tithes. (Hear, hear.)' I say it is a principle arose from causes over which we had no in the law that tithe, above all other properiy, control, and with wbich, as I said hefore, we shall be secure to the owner. (Hear, hear.) I had nothing to do. (Hear, bear.) The quesbeg your Lurrships to understand that l'amtion of tithes in Ireland, has ever distracted perfectly aware of all the difficulijes which that country, and it was a source of baleful attend the settlement of Ireland at present. dissension in it long before either the noble (Hear.). I was prepared, and I am prepareil, Duke or I were born. (Hear, hear.) It has my Lords, to support any fair measure calcu- buen a stumbling.block to every Administra. lated to allay the distractious in that country. tion, and successive statesinen have in turn (Cheers.) i am ready to support the proposi. directed their attentiou to it. How various tion of the noble Eari. (Cheers.) Aud to give have been the acts of Parliament wbich were any little interest which I may be supposed to made to regulate the tithes of a gistment, and command to prevent an opposition to it. to maintain the collectiou of them generally, (Cheers.) But I could not hear it stated that mutil the Composition Act was introduced by the distractions of Ireland were to be attri- the Administration of the noble Duke; but buted to the Administration with wbich I was bow sigual has been the failure of them all! conuected, while I know that we did every (Ilear. We have done everything in our thing to pacify the country, and to relieve it power to protect the rights of the church. from the sources of those dissensions which live bave interiered wish force when we were had so long disfigured and disgraced it.- called upon to act, and where it was pussible (Hear, hear.)

10 use it, there being many cases which deEarl Grey, I should certainly, my Lords, fied the application of force (hear); and we at all tinies he inueh gratified by the support now seek by a change of system to support which the noble Duke may be pleased to give that property, on the maiutenauce of which to ar:y measure of his Majesty's Government; the noble Duke has so warmly declaimed, and but I anxiously hope it will be given in a tem- which I have, with equal sincerity, always per different fron that in which the noble supported. (Hear.) The preservation of the Duke has now addressed your Lordships.- settled institutions of the country has been (Hear, hear.) I do vot think, my Lords, that the coustaut priuciple of Huy conduct, and I anything that fell from me was calculated to hope, my Lords, you will do me the justice to provoke that warmth. The noble Duke ac- believe that it will continue to be. (Hear, cused me of having charged bis Administration hear.) The noble Duke has said that I may with the maintenauce of the disturbed state of double and triple the ariny in Ireland, and Ireland ; but while the noble Duke was speak - Ioad the country with measures of severity ing I endeavoured to call to mind the exact as if I had any such inteutions in view—but words I said, and I think that what I uttered that I night do so in vain as long as encouis to this purpuse: that the difficulties which ragement was given to agitation. (Hear,

hear.) This, my Lorus, is a serious chargp. him next the Attorney-Geporal, and above a (Hear, hear.) It is a charge agaiust the Go- gentlemau who was once Ati-ruey-General, vernient of the country, nothing less than but was still a member of the same har. that of encouragiug bose agitators whose views | (Hear, hear.) If this is not encouragerneut are directed agaiuse the public peace aud the to that yeutleman to agitate, I dou't know safety of the state. (Hear.) My Lords, after what other mide can be found to encourage such a charge, 1 bave a right to call on the agitution. (Hear, hear.) But it is not alone in poble Duke for an explanation (cheers), or this respect that his Majeity's Government has for a specific accusation. (Hear.) To what everuraged agitation. (Hear, hear.) And he way, my Lords, have the Government giveu would ask what was the ineaning of the friends encouragemeut tu agitation ? (Hear.) I con of Governeut taking the course they bad done tradict it as Hatly as the noble Duke ha, cou-wut of doors with respect to the Reform Bill ? tradicted what i asserted. I contradict, my What was the meanings of the letter of a noble Lordi, as flatly as word, can, the truth of the Lord in another bouse-a letier addressed to statement (hear, hear); and I deny that any the Political Union of Birmingham, in which encouragement has been given to agitation that noble Lorel designated the sentiments of (Cheers.) My Lorus, I would have put it ouble peers on this side of the house as the down by levient measures, if possible, but by "whisper of a faction ?" (Hear, hear.) What furce, if it was necessary; and it is iny opinion was the meaning of two friends of Goveromeut that the application of force will not be the collecting a mob in Hyde-park and the ReJess powerful if couciliation be first tried. gent's-park, on one of the days in which the (Hear, bear.) My Lords, I will not shrink House of Lords was discussing the Refurın from the performance of my duty; aud when Bill? What was the ineaning of these indiviso serious a charge as that of the encouraye-duals directing the line of march of the assemmegt of agitatiou in Ireland be brought forbled mullilurle ?-and what the meaning of warul against his Mjesty's Goverunicut, I the publications in the Goverument newsthink we bave a right to call on the noble papers, libelling and maligning all those who Duke to state the grouuds on which be makes opposed the bill? What was the meaning of it. (Cherrs.)

all these deels being allowed by Governinent, Tbe Duke of Wellington—My Lords, 1 unless they were the encouragers and abettors never have made, I never will make, a charge of agitation? I don't accuse the noble Earl which I am wot really to repeat, and alle ton of instigating these mohs-1 do not mean to substantiare, (Hear, bear.) Some mouths say that he was deliylıted at sering iny house ago, I bey leave to remind your Lordships, 1 destroyed, or any other work of destructiou suggested to the ruble Earl, that an art of Par- commited; but I say some of bis colleagues, liament, which had been passed for the pur and some of the friends of Guverument, have pirse of putting an end to agitation in Irelaud, encouraged and ivcited ibe people to works of was about to expire, and I asked bim if he violence. I must say I have long felt this intended to propose the renewal of it. (Hear, suhject s'rungly, I find the country is in a hear.) Theviobie Eurl replied that he did; but, most dangerviis state. (dlear, bear.) I find my Lords, you will recollect that Parliament the country is in a most dangerous state, was dissolved without any further notice of on account of Guvernment wut taking the the act, and, of conrse, it expired. (Hear) proper measures to put a stop to confusion and The consequence of it was, that the nobie agitation; and, on the contrary, in place of Earl stated in the House, when it met again, putting a stop to such sceves, allowing some that the woble Marquis at the bead of the lords of bis Majesiy's household :0 eucourage Irish administrativo l'elt that he couid carry and instigate the people to lawless acis. (Hear, on his government without any additional tear.) powers; and the result of the moble Eurl hav. The Farl of ELDON next addressed the ing declined to apply to the Legislature for House, but in such a low tone of voice that a aliy authority beyond the existing laws was, great part of what he said was entirely lost; that agitation began, and that meeting after at the conclusion ton, of some of his observameeting bad been held from that time to the lions, he struck a bux on the table with such present muinent. (Hear, hear.) This is not all, violence that the meaning of the sentence was my Lorus ; the great agitatus of all escaped eutirely lo-t. With regard to England and the execution of the souteuce of the law in Irelami, he must say that he was bound to consequence of the expiration of the act o: blame Government, uot only for veglecting to parliament to which I have referred. (Hear, bring forward measures for putting down hear.) Well, my Lords, what happened after agitation, but for neglecting to carry the comthis? The great agitatur, upou whom the mon law iutu effect. For his part be was inbestowing of bonours might be supposed to clined to think that the non-exercise of the act as the encoura; emeut of agitatiuni, was common law and the statutes iu existence had selected as a person worthy of the favour of caused all the inisery which now overwhelmed the Crown; and the greai agitator received the country. Associations-criminal associathe highest favour which auy gentleman of the tioos, exisied; and he begged to know, when Bar ever received fruiu the hands of the noble such associations bad sprung up in so many Earl and his Government. (Hear, bear.) He quarters, how it happened that the common received a pateut of prevedeuce, which placed law was not applied to the originators and

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supporters of such associations, and why they, with the noble and learned Lord on the law were not brought to auswer for their cieeds ? or constitution of the country; but he He had read speeches from the Irish papers thought, when a factious opposition has been attributed to the individual alluded to by the made to any cousiitutional measure in the noble Duke, and he would say, without fear of Upper House, there was a remedy provided contradiction, that if these speeches were truly by the constitution of the country to defeat given, the Irish Government, who had winkedin, in the same way as the King bad a remedy at them, ought to be called upon to answer at against factivus opposition in the Commons. the bar of the House for not applying the When the measures of the other House are common law to a breach of the law. (Hear.) calculated to disturb the Government, the The country had now come tv a situation when King has the power of pitting an end to such he was entitled to ask whether any Govern-ineasures by dissolving Parliament, and the ment existed or not? It would not be proper King, in like inamuer, is armed with power at the present momeut to discuss, or even ad. to defea: an opposition, when that opposition vert, to the Reform Bill, further than by is at total variance with the best interests of making one observation. He was as loyal as the couutry. (Cheers.) He would, howany subject of bis Majesty ;-00 nou could ever, beg the noble and learved Lord to read be more loyal than he had been to the the letter again, and he would find that ihe late king's father-to the late king, aud to his words were meant to apply only to factious present Majesty; and he had, therefore, in a opposition, and that it was meant that such a conversation with an illustrious brother of his ineasure should be resorted to only in case of present Majesty, taken the liberty to declare, such au upposition, and in order to prevent on his soul and cousience, that, if the Reform the recurrence of such violent and tumultuous Bill passed, in the course of ten years not one proceedings which had disgraced the country. of the family of the House of Hanover woulu He must at the same time say that be wrote be on the throne. (Hear, lıear.) With reference the letter in a hurry, and not for publication; to the tithes, be would declare that, in some that he was earnestly requested to allow it to of the petitions presented agaiust lithes the be published, aud lie did not like to refuse to other night, it was his firm opivion that these publislı what were his real sentiments. Had petitions were directed not against titles, bul he taken more time to write it, he would proagainst the clergy, for not oue word was said bably have guarded against that misconcepagainst the tithes of the lay.impropriaturs. If lion which the nuble and learned Lord seemsuch was the fact, and he believed it could noted to entertain with regard to it. be denied, it was evident that the object of Viscouut MELBOURNE said he would not these associations was to put down tlic Trish follow the noble and learned Lord through church. He was bow an old man, and had the topics on whicle he had touched, but he been an attentive observer of passing events, would coofine himself chiefly to the charge and was distressed to find that the same iudi- brought against his noble Friend aud hinsell

. viduals who in 1790, 1791, and 1792, were en- The noble Duke had inade several observadeavouring to convert Ireland into a scene of tious which applied to the department which confusion, and separate it from England, were be filled, and he could not, therefore, pass now actually engaged in a similar plan. (The over them without attempting to say some. noble Lord' here made some observations thing iv his defence. The first charge was that about prosecutions iustituted forty years ago, ihe Proclamation Act had uot been renewed and the unwillingness of juries at first to con ou its expiration ; but wliy make such ao out. vict; but the manner in wbic! ne spoke cry ahout that act, when the noble and learned renders it impossible to give even a guess at Lord opposite laid it down as a thing undonbt: what conclusiou be meant to come.)

ed that the act was to bave no effect? (Cheers.) The Bishop of CHICHESTER said that, but He told the Itouse that it was nothing but an for the observations of the noble and learned object of ridicule and derision. It was neces. Lord, he should not have thought it necessary sary, however, to bear in mind that the Goto make any observation or give any explana. verument was not answerable for the expiration relative to the letter in question, and he tion of the act. The act expired would first of all say that, though differing lution of Parliament, and, unless tbey were from the noble Lord in other puiuts, he must to be accused for advising ile dissolución, bę cuncur with him in expressing his strong dis- could not see how they could be accused of approbation of the conduct of sone to whom causing a result which necessarily flowed from he had alluded. With regard to the expres. it, and which, iu fact, was only accessary to sion in the letter, he would only say that he it. (Hear, hear.) As no charge had ever been did not apply the terins “ factious and igno- brought forward against that measure, he rant” to any individuals; he applied them must conclude that no censure was imputed only in a general sense, and stated that if the to Government on that account; for if the House of Lurds did again reject the bill in noble Duke had thought Ministers were to the same way that it hnd been rejected last blame on that account, be had vo doubt that session, the constitution provided a remedy he would have brought forward more freely for further opposition. (Cheers from the and openly a charge to that effect. With reministerial side, and re-echoed from the op gurd to the renewal of the Proclamation Act, position.) He would not pretend to dispute he would appeal to the agitation in Ireland,

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and ask whether that act would in the slight- ' prevent the injury done to his property. What est degree diminish the resistance made to , he had complaineid of, however, was, that tithes ? (Hear.) He utterly denied that it iwo persons in the employ of Goverument had would have the smallest effect in destroying takeu an active part at the meeting. (Name, the opposition to the collection of tiibes, name.) He would not name, buť what he which had not sprung up yesterday, but which stated was sufficiently well known. The had been going on for many years. The uext noble Earl said the Proclamation Act had excharge was that a favour bad been conferred! pired with the Parliament, and that therefore on Mr. O'Connell. It was thought a great Goverument was not to blame for vot enforcinjustice that a silk gown should be given to a ing it against the individual in question. It gentleman who, from his station and practice, ought to be recollected, however, that the hon, aod knowledge of the law, was well entitled Geoileman had been convicted of several of. to it. If the question were put to the Irish fences, and bad not been brought up for judgbench, he had not the smallest doubt that ment till Parliament was prorogued. He did they would answer iu the affirmative... He not blame Government for conferring favours did not at all take into account the political for professional merit, but be blained them for opposition of that individual, for he did not the course they had pursued wben the indivitbiuk that ought to bave any influence in dual in question had been convicted of legal granting a reward for professional knowledge offences. and ability. (Hear.) For his part be could Earl Grey said he obtruded himself again see nothing in the conduct of the learned geo- on the House with great reluctance, and the tleman which could exclude him from the pa more so as the discussion which had been tent of precedency which he had received. going on for two hours was so irregular. He The noble Duke had also blamed Government was forced, however, to the subject, as the for words used by his noble colleague. He poble Duke bad made a serious charge against did not recollect the exact words, and was iu- bim and the Government. He had called upon clined to think that the noble Duke bad not the noblo Duke to state the grounds of the quoted them correctly. Even admitting they charge, and in fact no grounds had been were correctly quoted, there was nothing new stated. The noble Duke charged them with in the phrase. The whisper of a faction was taking part with agitators, and encouraging merely applied to political opposition. Buth persons to disturb the peace of the country, in the House and out of the House such terms and infringe the laws. The charge had been were frequently used. It was no new thing denied, and no proofs had been adduced. The to have recourse to such sparring. It was, in noble Duke said he did not nean to assert fact, if be might use the expression, the com- that the Government had actually lent their moo slang applied to opposition, and he assistance to agitators—did not blame them so thought it was unfair to lay much stress on it. much for encouragement as for neglect. Now He certainly did not consider the noble Duke with respect to veglect, that had been so well entitled to bring it forward in the serious way answered by his noble Friend the Secretary of in which he had brought it. Another charge the Home Department, that it would not be was that two friends of Government had di: necessary for bim to detain their Lordships rected the march of the multitude who had on that point. The first charge was that assembled at Hyde-park; but Goverument of allowing the Proclamation Act to expire ; surely were not to be called to account, or but that, as had been said by his poble be aoswerable for the conduct of all their Friend, expired with Parliament. He did not frieods. At the same time he did not see in know if Government could have acted otherwhat respect their conduct was faulty, and wise than they had done. With regard to what was the grievous offence in pointing out carrying the conviction into effect, Go. the line of march. But what did the noble vernment had taken the best legal advice, Duke mean by publications in the Goveru- and the opinion of council was, that the perment newspapers ? (Hear, bear.), Did the sons convicted could not be legally brought up poble Duke mean the Gazettes ? (Laughter.) for judgment. The charge of encouraging or That was the only Government newspaper; winking at agitation was must unfounded. and he was not aware that the publication The common law enforced by the Goveromeut complained of had appeared in that paper. It of Ireland in some of the disturbed districts was too bad to make Government nut only was most successful. lo the county of Claře, responsible for the conduct of their friends, where there had been an open iusurrection, a but for the conduct of newspapers which some- Special Commission had been appointed to try times advocated their cause, and also for the the offenders. Many of the unfortunate india insertion of advertisemenis. (Hear, hear.)viduals had been convicted, and some of them No one could regret more than he did the in- had paid the penalty of their lives, and jury done to the house of the noble Duke, and others had been banished from their country he must express his hope and belief that the for ever (hear), and that part of the kingdom noble Duke in imputing any blame to Governo had been restored to tranquillity. So much ment for such an occurrence bad done it has. for Government neglecting to carry the comtily, and witbout due consideration.

mon law into effect. But the strongest proof The Duke of Wellington gave the noble of encouragement was, the fact that Govern. Viscount credit for doing what he could to meut bad giveu a silk gowo to an individual

who had been convicted of legal offences; but the poble Duke would no longer term them the noble Duke must be aware that it was no Goveruinent newspapers, if by the woral “ gonew thing fur persons convicted of legal of. verumeut" be meant that Ministers exercised fences being appointed to situations and re- any coutrol over them. (Hear, hear.) Such were ceiving favours from Government. It would the charges of the noble Duke, and such were be necessary for him to meulian only Sir the answers which he (Lord Grey) begged to Richard Steele aud Dean Swift. He thuuglie give to them. Agitation had beeu resisted aud ii would be most unjust, for such offences, to put down wherever it could be put down. He exclude persons from all the advantages and vow begged to be allowed to say a few words in honours to which they were otherwise entitled. auswer to what had fallen frum the poble Earl He had no hesitation, however, in sayiog, opposite. In the observatious which be was that at the time the pateut of precedence was about to make, the noble Duke might, per. given, agitation had subsided, and he hoped haps, suppose that be (Lord Grey) availed Mr. O'Connell would have been disposed to himself of an opportunity to attack the conjoin with Government iu pursuing a concilia- duct of the Governinent during his (the Duke tory course. For these reasons he had thought of Wellington's) administration. He begged it advisable that the learned Gentleman' the noble Duke to believe that he intended no should not be excluded fron those bonours to such thing; his observations would be diwhich bis character as a lawyer and his legal rected only to a viudicatiou of himself. The ability certainly entitled him. (Hear.) He present Government has becu accused of almust say, however, that in his anticipations lowing the spirit of factiou to proceed, and he had been grievously disappointed. (Hear.'illegal associations to be formed, without any The noble Duke migbt take what advantage attenipt to put them down. He (Lord Grey) he chose of the ineasure ; but that certainly asserted that these evils were in existeuce, and should not make him regret, takiug the cir- rapidly advancing towards maturity, before he cumstances altogether, the measures he ball and his colleagues came iuto office. (Hear, resorted to. As to the charge of encouraging hear.) Political uuions were formed in the agitatiou, or winking at the disturbances January previous to his becoming a minister which had unfortunately bruken out in some of the Crowa; but he never heard of auy parts of Ireland, he must utterly deny it. ineasures, on the part of the then-existing The assistance of Governmeot had been given government, to put them dowu. (Hear, hear.) in every instance when it could be given, aud, The Trades Vuion, which had created the in faci, the military had been employed in greatest alarm in the manufacturing districts, many cases in a way in which they had never were in existence before the noble Duke rebeeu employed beture. The noble Duke bad tired; and wheu he (Lord Grey) aud his colnext blamed Government for a letter of thanks leagues came into uffice, all that they fvuod which had been writteu by his poble Friend upou the subject was, a recommendation from The phrase complained of was, perhaps, im- the Secretary of State to the Governmeut to prudently expressed; but he should like if the give the matter its serious consideration. At noble Duke would point out the means of that time, up to the metropolis, aye, even to controlling the imprudent zeal of friends. He the gates of the city itself, the country was in could auswer for his own cuuduct, but he a state almost of open insurrection. The most thought it was top much to make him auswer. destructive fires were of nightly occurreuce ; able for all the letters and private opinions of agricultural property was uo-where safe ; a others. The truth of the noble Duke's asser- lawless mob traversed extensive districts, comtion, then, he alt.gether denied, and, he mittivg the greatest ravages ;-yet nothing must add, that one more uvfvuuded, advanced was dune. (Hear, bear.) When the noble in support of a more serious charge, he [Lord j and learned Lord, therefore, said that the Grey) never remembered to have heard in-powers of the law had not been exercised, let troduced iu any debale. He (Lord Grey) pro-him (Lord Grey) say that not au hour elapsed fessed to have uv control whatever over after he came into office before legal commis. the friends whom the noble Duke siops were seut down into the disturbed dishad alluded (hear, bear); and if the noble tricts—the civil force was increased, the army Duke, wheu at the head of the Goverumeut, augmented, iu short, everything done that it fussessed any control over such friends, was possible for a Government under such he was undoubiedly much more fortunate circuinstances to do. Their exertions were than himself. Jodeed, the noble Duke, if he successful. Riot was stayed-tranquillity rehad read many of the articles which had stored. Then be (Lord Grey) asserted that appeared in the newspapers that he had termed the accusations which had that digut been Government newspapers

- which were uu- brought against the Government were uudoubtedly conducted with great ability-often founded. (Hear, bear.). It had doue everycontained many excellent articles, aud much thing in its power to advance the prosperity uselul information, but which did not always of the people, and to maintain the peace and exhibit the most friendly spirit towards him tranquillity of the country. With respect to (Lord Grey), or the Government of which be the disturbances which occurred in the mewas a member; if the poble Duke, he said, tropolis after the rejectiou of the Reform Bill, had read many of the articles which had ap- ' be (Lord Grey) could say no more than that peared in thuse newspapers, he thought that be siucerely regretted them. But he appealed


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