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apostles had, though much below;' and that “they have the word abiding in them.'
A. You that never heard the voice of God, nor saw his shape, have not seen him who is a spirit, nor have you his power, nor his word abiding in you; for they who have the spirit of God, and the power of God, and the word of God abiding in them; with the spirit of God, with the power of God, see God's shape; and they who have God's word abiding in them, hear the voice of God; for God is the word, and God will dwell in them, and walk in them.
P. “That they are brought to the church that is in God, the pillar and ground of truth, where there is neither spot nor wrinkle, nor any such thing.'
A. And yet you never heard the voice of God! and how can yo.. be brought to the church that is in God, and never heard the voice of God? For none come to the son but through the drawings of the Father; and none know the drawings of the Father, but they who hear his voice. The Jews that came not to the son, Christ told them, they had not known the voice of God; and none come to him, but who the Father draweth.
P. "We do not look for any such thing as revelation from heaven, or speaking as they are moved, or waiting for the power, as the apostles did; we say we do not look for any such thing.'
A. This shows that you have not received the grace, for the grace comes by revelation ; and that you have not received the son, for the son comes by revelation; nor have you known the Father whom the son reveals; you are not come to the holy ghost whom the saints witnessed, that led them to speak forth scriptures, for no prophecy of the scriptures came by the will of man. So you are among those men that have the scriptures in their wills, and want the thing that the scriptures were given forth by, that is, the holy ghost; for holy men of God were moved to speak them forth, who learned them of God and spake them forth as the spirit gave them utterance. Therefore, how can ye say, that you are come to the church in God, and wait neither for the power nor revelation as the saints did, and were in? For if you have all the scriptures, and have not that, you have not revelation, and have not the holy ghost; for the scriptures, are not known but by revelation, and they are revealed by the spirit hat gave them forth: and though men have all the scriptures, yet the son is not known but by revelation of the Father.
P. “The scripture is the gospel, the scripture is the light, the scripture is the word.'
A. The scriptures are the words of God given forth from the spirit of God, learned from him: the gospel is the power of God, the scripure declares it. A man may have the form and deny the power, and
so deny the gospel. Christ is the light of the world, the life and the light of men, by whom the world was made; and many have the scrip tures, but deny the light, the life and power of it, Christ Jesus, who is the life, and power, and authority of them.
P. “That they knew no law of God against praying and preaching by an hour-glass; and that the apostles did perform the ordinances of God at set times; and Daniel and David prayed customarily, and how this can be said to be will-worship, and to be seen of men, we shall leave it to the Lord.'
A. The Lord judgeth it to be will-worship, that which limits the holy one to an hour-glass; and the spirit of the Lord that taught the saints to pray, never limited itself to an hour-glass. So you by an hour glass pray and preach as the Papists with their beads, so that which limits the Lord to a set time, are traditions and vain customs of the heathen, and traditions of men, which always limited the spirit; which spirit gave freedom to the Just in every one, who said, quench it not, nor limit it; but knocked down vain customs and traditions of men, which were set up by men who had quenched the spirit in themselves, and would limit the Holy One in others. And such were always judged of the Lord, and by them that had his spirit, to be idolaters, and in the will-worship, and not in the spirit, which are got up since the days of the apostles.
John Turner's Principles.
P. “That light which convinceth a man of sin was a wicked conscience.'
A. The wicked conscience doth not convince of sin, then satan were divided against satan: that which doth convince of sin, is not wicked, nor sin; but it is the spirit of God, the light of Christ Jusus, that convinceth of sin; and the elect have faith, and where faith is
, there is obedience.
The Ranters' Principles.
P. Christ without comes to destroy Christ within.'
A. Christ is but one, and it is the devil that he destroys and bis works, the anti-christ and not the true Christ, who is the true seed in male and female; and it is the false Christ he destroys in the male and female, and he comes to end the types and figures and shadows that
people might live in him, the end of the types, and figures, and shadows, the substance.
P. And the woman that Paul speaks of that is forbidden to speak in the church, but must learn of her husband at home, is the whore that drinks the blood of the saints in Revelations.'
A. That is false; for the woman the apostle speaks of there, that must learn in silence, and must be in subjection, and ask her husband at home, is in the state of Eve, who must not teach, but learn in silence, as also said the law, for she was first found in the transgression. Now the woman here hath a husband to ask at home, and she is not to usurp authority over the man; but Christ in the male as in the female, who redeems from under the law, and makes free from the law, may speak, Christ in the male and female who are in the spirit of God, who are not under the law. But the whore who drinks the blood of the saints, is gone from her husband, from under the law, to ask the whoremaster, that doth drink the blood of the saints, which Christ the seed judgeth, upon whom he gives judgment.
P. And the outward creatures which God hath made and created, and blessed, are the serpent's meat,' as the old Ranter of Bristow, when he was gnawing a piece of plum pudding, said he was eating the serpent's meat.
A. The serpent's meat is dust, and he goes on his belly, and so he hath proved himself to be a serpent, who eats his meat; which the children of God, the seed, do not; and Christ who ate of the bread, did not eat the serpent's meat, he did not call it serpent's meat, and that which doth so is cursed and judged.
Francis Duke's Book, entitled, " The fulness and freeness of God's
grace. His Principles are as follow.
P. “God made man perfection of parts in this life, but not perfection in degrees.'
A. Perfection of parts is perfection of degrees; for where there is a part there is a degree, so in this thou meddlest with things that are too heavy for thee.
P. “That God did elect that drop of human seed to be personal God-man, as the text is; the seed of the woman shall bruise the serpents' head.'
A. The elect is Christ, the seed; Christ the second Adam, is not human, for human is earthly, so thou errs in thy judgment, for as Christ the seed says, 'he that is born of the flesh, is flesh, and he that is
born of the spirit is spirit,' and the election obtains it, and he that is of the earth is earthly, but he that is from above, is heavenly.
P. “Men may obey imperfectly, but truly.'
A. Truth is perfect; Christ who is perfect, is truth, and they that obey truly, obey perfectly, for perfect obedience, and true obedience
P. “The seed of the serpent and the devil's seed remains in the best of men in this life, for without this seed of the devil issuing in hunan nature, it is not capable of eternal life.'
A. This seed of the devil hinders men from being capable of eternal life, and such as were sanctified from the womb, were capable of eternal life; and such as were made free from sin and the body of death and sin put out of them, could not sin, because the seed of God remained in them, and Christ in them, who witnessed redemption, and the works of the devil destroyed, and Christ manifested in their flesh, who condemned sin in their flesh, the body being dead because of sin. They who were born of God, did not commit sin, they were passed from death to life; for sin brought death, and the devil, which went out of the truth, had the power of it, but the seed hath destroyed death, and him that hath the power of it, which is the devil. And God, the God of all peace, hath bruised satan under the saints' feet; such are a-top of the seed of the deyil, and they are capable of eternal life, and tell thee thy doctrine is a lie.
P. Man may believe truly, but never rightly.'
A. He that believeth truly, and is in the true belief, believes rightly; and he that believes truly is born of God, and he whose belief is false, is not born of God, it is as his belief that is out of the truth, which is not right, and the true belief in truth is over him, in that the devil is out of, and all his generation that stand in an outward belief.
P. The will of man remains in good men and bad men in heaven, and in hell, and on carth.'
A. No prophecy of the scriptures came by the earthly will of man, but man's will must be subducd, and denied with the cross and power of God, whereby he that doth the will of God abides for ever; but he that doth his own will abides not ever, and flesh and blood enter not into the kingdom of God, and they that go down into hell, go down in their own wills and wilfulness, but man must be born again before be can enter into God's kingdom; he that is born of the flesh is flesh, and will persecute him that is born after the spirit, for there are the two wills, and earth is their footstool.
P. "The saints affirm themselves that they are all unclean things and their righteousness as filthy rags.'
A. The saints are clean, and are sanctified, and are washed, and are cleansed. "Now are you clean,' saith the Lord; ye were such, and such;
and the saints' righteousness is Christ, such as never will grow ragged, which was before the world was made, which beforc
and ragged righteousness was; this is the saints' and true believers' righteousness, and the saints are not unclean things, for it is the unsanctified that are unclean.
P. The saints have a twofold righteousness in this world.'
A. The righteousness of the saints is one in Christ, and is one in God, from whence all righteousness comes, and the true believers' righteousness is Christ Jesus, the end of the law.
P. Thou sayst that, • James envies those that brag of their faith without works, and sayst, “the Lord attributes that to the eye, which is not proper, the eye is the light of the body, but yet the eye hath no light in itself to enlighten the body; so he attributes that to the eye which is proper to the light.'
A. James did not envy, for envy was of Cain, and of the devil, and of the wicked one, he did not envy them whose faith was dead without works. And Christ's speech was proper, who said the light of the body was the eye, and without the eye the body hath not light; look at it, either inward or outward; it is proper within, and proper without, for when the eye is blinded within, the body is full of darkness; when the eye is blinded without, the body is dark, and it wants the light; and the light of the body is the eye, that being single, the body is full of light, and that is perfect. P. That God redeems his church with his blood, yet bleeds not.'
A. Here again thou cayillest with the apostle's words, and art a perverter of the scriptures, who art corrected by them; the apostle speaks of the blood of God, and the blood shed, and the conscience sprinkled with the blood.
P. "Justifying faith, simply considered in itself, as to justification of a sinner, is but a dark body till it hath received Christ, and his righteousness.'
A. Where justification and justifying faith are, there Christ and his righteousness are felt, for he is the justification; and this is not a dark body, neither justifying faith, nor justification of a sinner, but thou art the dark body, that hast so judged, for it is all one.
P. •It is but perfection of parts, not of degrees, that people attain to: beware you dream not that you attain to perfection of degrees, as the Quakers do, for when you so think of yourselves, that is the hour and power of darkness, and you fall into temptations and abominations.'
A. Where perfection is in parts, there are degrees, and that which is perfect keeps out of darkness, out of the temptation and abomination; he that speaks of perfection of parts, and not of degrees, doth not know what he speaks of, but is in a dream, and in the hour of temp