ascertain whether any alteration might not be effected in the mode of taking the poll, as well as limiting the time of polling. Amendment proposed, at the end of the Question to add the words" to a Select Committee."

Question proposed, "That those words be there added.'

"

MR. WALPOLE said, he concurred in the suggestion of referring the Bill to a Select Committee, with a view of ascertaining particularly the position of the various counties with respect to the facilities for the conveyance of electors, and for taking the poll at elections. The Government would state, before Wednesday next, the course which it would be prepared to adopt with respect to the Bill in Com

mittee.

A short discussion then ensued, in which
Mr. Spooner, Mr. B. Denison, Mr. Wal-
pole, and Mr. Alcock, took part, when Mr.
Vansittart said, he would not press his
Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Bill committed for Wednesday next.
House adjourned at a quarter before
Three o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

Thursday, November 25, 1852.

MINUTES.] Took the Oaths.-Several Lords.

slightest degree, to claim that indulgence which the House ordinarily extends to Members who have questions publicly to ask, namely, the permission to make such previous statement as may render such questions intelligible. ["Order, order!"] I shall not, I repeat, have occasion to avail myself of that

MR. COBDEN: Sir, I rise to order. I think it will be admitted on both sides of the House that it will be exceedingly inconvenient that a question should be put, accompanied by a speech, unless it is under circumstances which would admit of a reply. The hon. Gentleman, I submit, would, therefore, better promote the object he has in view if he wishes to make a statement by letting it be understood that he will finish with a Motion.

SIR WILLIAM CLAY: Sir, I have no intention to make any speech, but it is important that I should put the question, because I think it will have an important bearing on our proceedings here to-night. With these simple words of preface then, as my hon. Friend the Member for the West Riding will not permit me the smallest indulgence in that respect, I ask, first, of the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, because I believe, in so doing, it will be more in accordance with the usage of this House in similar cases, whether he will be willing to withdraw that

PUBLIC BILL.-1 Metropolitan Building Act Amendment which he has put into your

Further Amendment.

COMMERCIAL LEGISLATION - FREE
TRADE-EXPLANATIONS.

SIR WILLIAM CLAY: Sir, I rise for the purpose of asking, first, of my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. C. Villiers), and in the next place of the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, questions which, not in my own estimation only, but I believe also in the estimation of many other hon. Members, have an important bearing on the proceedings of this House. In so doing I am happy to say that I shall not

occasion, or at least in the very

hand on the Motion of my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, on the understanding that if it be withdrawn the House will acquiesce in the Resolution proposed by the noble Lord the Member for Tiverton (Viscount Palmerston)? I ask of my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton whether, on a like understanding, he will be prepared to withdraw his Motion? And again I ask as a second question of the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether, in the event of the hon. Member for Wolverhampton refusing to withdraw his Motion, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) will accept the Resolution proposed by my noble Friend the Member for Tiverton as a substitute for his own Amendment?

SIR JAMES GRAHAM: My sense, Sir, of public duty will, I am sorry to say, compel me to make a speech, and to bring myself strictly within the rules of the House. I shall conclude with making a Motion. Sir, I beg in the first place to state, that in a new Parliament-having had long experience in this House-I am one of the

and on the following morning, in addition to the information which I had derived from the discussion here, and from hearing the announcement on the part of the Government, made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, I had the advantage, through the ordinary channels, of reading what passed elsewhere, and of considering the statement made by the head of the Government. Hav

tion, I frankly avow-considering the posi tion to which I have alluded-that I took particular interest in reference to the mode in which that Motion should be framed; and on the morning of the 12th, having Her Majesty's Speech before me, and the speech to which I have alluded as having been made elsewhere, I endeavoured to frame the terms of that Motion. I shall state to the House without disguise what was the spirit in which I endeavoured to frame that Resolution. I remembered, as the noble Viscount the Member for Tiverton reminded us the other night, that this

ion-is an assembly of Gentlemen; and I was most anxious, in framing that Resolution, to insert nothing in it which I thought would wound the feelings of any of those who perhaps, without changing their opinions, were ready to change their course with reference to a specific policy about to be triumphant.

for Wolverhampton as the organ of the Free-trade party in this House on that occasion. So matters stood when I came into the House; and I certainly fully expected, considering that the terms of the Speech were somewhat ambiguous, that the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on the part of Her Majesty's Government, would avail himself of the ordinary opportunity, before the com-ing been a party to a notice given of a Momencement of the discussion on the Address, to give notice for a particular day of his intention to introduce the promised measure on the part of the Government. You, Sir, are always most particular on that day, when the mover and seconder of the Address are present, that the discussion should commence at the appointed hour. That hour is half-past four. You waited until twenty minutes to five-longer than usual-in consequence of the absence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer; and when the right hon. Gentleman entered the House, my impression was-and I do not think I was singular in that impres--whatever may be our differences of opinsion-that he was about to give notice for a particular day on which the measures of the Government would be introduced. He did not do so. The noble Lord the Member for North Northumberland (Lord Lovaine) moved the Address in a speech of great ability; but still I could not fail to remember that he had displaced in the representation of the county of Northumberland one of the most distinguished Members of the Free-trade party-my right hon. Friend Sir George Grey-that he had effected that victory in Northumberland principally on the ground of advocating protection as against free trade, and I could not believe that if protection was to be abandoned, it was a Percy that was to perform that operation in this House. When the speech of the seconder of the Address was nearly concluded, my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, sitting immediately behind me, stretched forward and asked, "Shall I still give notice of my Motion?"-I did not know what others said-I said, "Certainly, give your notice. That notice was given in point of time before any declaration of the policy of the Government had been pronounced in either House of Parliament, and it was made in the absence of any day being appropriated by the Government for the introduction of those measures which had been promised. I listened with attention to the debate which followed; I weighed well the terms of Her Majesty's Speech;

And also I am bound to say I did not forget that I myself had been a convert from former opinions, and was the very last person in the House who ought not to have some regard for the feelings of others in such circumstances. Now, will the House bear with me whilst I state how I proceeded in framing that Resolution? I took the Speech of Her Majesty and the paragraph which refers to protection and free trade, and I took the speech also made elsewhere, to which I have referred, and I endeavoured to insert in the shape of a Resolution everything which I thought necessary for the distinct assertion of the principle for which those who were attached to the policy of free trade contended, and to omit everything in the Resolution to which those who were willing, under the circumstances, to depart from the policy of protection, and to adopt that of free trade, could reasonably object. That is the spirit in which I endeavoured to frame the Resolution. I have the original Resolution before me as so drawn, and with the permission of the House I will read it. The words are

"That it is the opinion of this House that the improved condition of the country, and especially of the industrious classes, is in a great measure the result of recent legislation, which has abolished taxes imposed for the purpose of protection, which has thereby diminished the cost of the principal articles of food, and which has established unrestricted competition.

"It is the opinion of this House that, without inflicting injury on any important interest, this policy, firmly maintained and prudently extended,

the attention of the House. It is in these words :

"That this House will be ready to take into consideration any measures consistent with these principles which, in pursuance of Her Majesty's gracious Speech and recommendation, may be laid before it."

I thought that suggestion admirable; I thought it a great improvement; and it was in entire accordance with my desire that the Government should not be inter

will best enable the industry of the country to bear its burdens, and will thereby most surely promote the welfare and contentment of the com-rupted unduly in the presentation of their munity."

measures for the consideration of the House. Having obtained the opinion and sanction of my noble Friend, I then met my Lord Aberdeen and my Colleagues in the Government of the late Sir Robert Peel who had been officially responsible for the repeal of the corn laws. We dis

Resolutions: they underwent some alterations, and the terms of some of them were changed. But in a matter of this kind, the entire truth ought to be stated to the House. I shall state exactly the result of those deliberations, and the changes which were effected in consequence of the interview which I had with my former Colleagues. I will now read how the Resolutions stood after that interview. The first Resolution was in these words:

:

These were the original Resolutions; I have already told the House that, though inadequate yet honestly, I do consider myself a representative of the policy to which I was a party, under the guidance of my late most distinguished Friend Sir Robert Peel; and I put to myself the question-cussed most carefully the words of the two if my right hon. Friend were still alive, in the present circumstances, with no sinister object in view-for he disregarded all sinister objects-what with reference to the good of the country and to the security of the policy he had at heart, and its firm maintenance on the surest ground-what, under the present circumstances, would be the line he would take? And I assure you, Sir, and this House, on my honour, that to the best of my judgment, with my intimate knowledge both of his feelings and his general course of proceeding, I believe he would have framed a better Resolution, but a Resolution in the spirit of the one which I have read. Now, I sent this Resolution to my noble Friend the Member for the City of London, with whom, I am happy to say, I have been Now, Sir, I must state to the House that in cordial and friendly communication. in framing this Resolution, I had parti["Hear!"] Now, that cheer convinces cular attention to the words of Her Mame that there is an undue and an er- jesty's Speech; and if the House will alroneous suspicion that there is a factious low me, I will call their attention to those party spirit at work; but I am about to show to you-I think conclusively-that you have been premature in coming to that conclusion. What was the answer of my noble Friend? He said to me

I

"On the whole, I approve of your words; have seen none which I prefer; but I think there is an objection to the Resolutions, as they stand without some safeguard. If carried adversely, the Government will be of opinion that they are intended to obstruct the course which they deem it their duty to take, and that it is not desired by the House to see the measures which they have announced as prepared."

And my noble Friend, so far from desiring to pursue a factious course towards the Government, recommended the insertion of the third clause, to which I will now call

"It is the opinion of this House that the improved condition of the country, and especially of the industrious classes, is in a great measure the result of recent legislation, which has established abolished taxes imposed for the purpose of protecthe principle of unrestricted competition, has tion, and has thereby diminished the cost of the principal articles of food."

words. The part to which I am about to call the attention of the House states the matter hypothetically

"If you should be of opinion that recent legislation, in contributing, with other causes, to this unhappy"

[Laughter.] I beg pardon of the Houseflicted unavoidable injury on certain important -"this happy result has, at the same time, ininterests, I recommend you dispassionately to consider how far it may be practicable equitably to mitigate their injury, and to enable the industry of the country to meet successfully that unrestricted competition to which Parliament in its wisdom has decided that it should be subjected." Now, understanding distinctly from the various speeches made, both in this House and elsewhere, that if the policy of a coun

tervailing duty on corn were abandoned, it | "this policy strictly maintained did not give was thought indispensable by the Govern- rise to any just claim for compensation." I ment that compensation for alleged injury was content, therefore, to withdraw those should then be sought by some other mode words which might be supposed to have than by a countervailing duty, I thought reference to the past, leaving only those that these words, which had been deliber- which had a prospective effect. Subject ately adopted by the Cabinet, and which to these observations, I adopted the ResoHer Majesty under such advice had deli- lutions as I have read them to the House; vered from the Throne, studiously raised and I placed them at the disposal of the noble the presumption that such "injury" had Lord the Member for the City of London, in been inflicted, and opened the door to the order that he might see whether it were admission of compensation. Now, I will possible to obtain a common consent to tell the House frankly, that in framing the them. The Resolutions became the subject second Resolution, I sought to traverse of discussion among the most distinguished that presumption, and to assert-at least Members who had been the consistent adby implication-that there was no such in-vocates of the repeal of the corn laws. jury, and that in reference to the future, the policy of free trade might be firmly maintained, and even prudently extended, without inflicting any injury upon any class -thereby shutting the door against compensation. Now, it is rather a nicetybut it is necessary that the whole truth should be stated. As I drew the Resolution at first, I had put these words :

"It is the opinion of this House that without inflicting injury upon any important interest, this policy, firmly maintained and prudently extended, will enable the industry of the country to bear its

burdens."

It was deemed by them that the reference to the repeal of the corn laws should be more specific, and that it should be declared in express terms that that "Act was a wise, just, and beneficial measure." Now, Sir, considering the course which I have taken with respect to that repeal, if the question were put to me absolutely, Will you or can you dissent from the terms of that Resolution? I could not, as an honest man, say that I dissented from them. I certainly say that I should have infinitely preferred-perhaps from an overweening parental partiality-adherence Thus placed, the Resolution might be sup-to my own words; but when I found that posed to have a retrospective effect, as well as a prospective. I individually had the strongest opinion that there is no case which gives a retrospective claim to compensation; but still I am bound to say that some of my former Colleagues in the Government of the late Sir Robert Peel thought that that question would be more fairly left open-that the Resolution should be merely prospective in its effect, and not combine the retrospective and prospective assertion of the principle. It was thought better that these words just quoted should follow after the word "will," rather than precede it, thus giving it entirely a prospective, and removing altogether the retrospective character of the sentence. It was accordingly thus amended :

"It is the opinion of this House that this policy, firmly maintained and prudently extended, will, without inflicting injury upon any important

interests, best enable the industry of the country to bear its burdens, and will thereby most surely promote the welfare and contentment of the people."

I was willing to adopt that suggestion, because I felt that whenever the question arose, and the Government thought fit to raise it with respect to compensation for the past, I should be enabled then to say,

they would not command general assent, I said at once, "If it be the opinion of a majority-a decided majority-of freetraders that there should be that special reference in these terms to the repeal of the corn laws, I cannot refuse my assent to that proposition." I heard no more of this until the Government-I think on the Friday following-presented the terms of their Amendment. I looked deliberately at that Amendment; and I must say that, weighing the difference of those terms, and considering the grave objections which I entertained to them-to which it would be inexpedient now to refer, but which, if the discussion should proceed, I hope by the kind indulgence of the House to be allowed to state-considering that I had to decide between the Amendment laid upon the table and the original Resolution as proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, I had no doubt that it would be my duty to support the original Motion. And I must add, that if the question of free trade is to turn upon words, I was more disposed to adopt the words of the consistent advocate of the repeal of the corn laws, in the person of my hon. Friend the Member for Wolver