seen ten thousand halibut a day caught at Anticosti in water where we could see bottom. This halibut fishery is the best paying fishery that I have ever been in. I have made ninety dollars in twelve days as one of the hands at this fishery.

12. That the seining breaks up and destroys the fishing, as it breaks up the schools of mackerel and scares the fish. The seiners also take both big and small fish, and all sorts of fish, and they only save the good mackerel. The herring, small mackerel, and other fish are all killed in the seines, and these are thrown away. These fish all sink to the bottom and putrefy and hurt the bottom, the feeding ground of the other fish, and I think it poisons the other fish to eat this rotton stuff. The seining has broken up and destroyed the fishing on the American shore, and that is the effect it always has. They break up and destroy the hooking with the seines. This has happened on the George's grounds.

13. That the years the cutters were round they interfered with the American fishing and spoilt catches. I was out then myself, and we used to have to keep a man always on the lookout, and then when we saw the cutter's smoke we had to clear out. Some of their vessels were

taken by the cutters.

14. That the right to land here, transship their mackerel, and refit is a very great advantage to the Americans, as they save on an average three weeks each trip by not having to take their fish home in their own vessels. This would be equal to an additional trip for the season. Then they can buy provisions and refit cheaper here than they can at home. They can also watch and take advantage of the changes in the mackerel market. If a skipper has any fish he can telegraph on to his owner and can have the fish sold in the early market and at the early prices. The mackerel are also liable to get rusted and injured by being kept long in the holds of the vessels. This injury is avoided by landing the fish and sending them on in steamers without loss of time. CHARLES W. DUNN.

Sworn to at Murray Harbor, in King's County, in Prince Edward Island, this 31st day of July, A. D. 1877, before me, the erasures and interlineations opposite my name having been first made.

MALCOM MCFADYEN,

J. P. for King's County, Prince Edward Island.

No. 31.

I, JAMES HOWLETT, of Georgetown, in King's County, Prince Edward Island, fisherman, make oath and say:

1. That I have been engaged in fishing for fifteen years, in vessels belonging to the United States. I have fished all about Bay Chaleur, from Port Hood to Seven Islands, at the Magdalens, all along this island coast, and two years mackerel-fishing on the American shores, and many winters cod-fishing.

2. That I should say the American fleet in this gulf numbers three hundred and fifty to four hundred sail, for certain, each year. The number varies; last year there were few shooners in the bay.

3. That in the Affodite, an American schooner of about sixty-eight tous, and carrying fifteen hands, we landed two trips at Canso, and carried two home, making four in all, averaging two hundred and seventyfive barrels each trip.

4. That in the Alice G. Wanson I fished one season in this bay, and

we carried home four hundred barrels of mackerel. She was seventy tons measurement, and carried sixteen hands.

5. That one summer, in the Energy, a large schooner of one hundred tons, we took home four hundred and fifty barrels.

6. That I was in the Glenwood for the fall trip, or about half the season; in her we carried home two hundred and seventy five barrels. She was a schooner of about sixty-five tons, and carried fourteen or fifteen hands.

7. That I was in the Rose Skerret, fishing in this bay for the first trip of about two months, July and August, and we took home two hundred and five barrels. She was about seventy-five tons, and carried seventeen hands.

8. That I was one whole season in the Pescidore, fishing in the bay for two trips. We carried home in all five hundred and fifty barrels. She was about fifty-eight tous burden, and carried fourteen hands.

9. That I was in the C. D. Oliver, for two-thirds of the season, when we carried home two hundred and seventy-five barrels of mackerel. 10. That in my experience of fishing in the bay, we averaged, for the whole season, from five to six hundred barrels of mackerel each year. 11. That one season in the John Somes, we took home seven hundred barrels of mackerel. She was about sixty-five tons burden, and carried fifteen and sixteen hands.

12. That in the first part of the season, the fish caught in these vessels were mostly caught between West Point and North Cape of this island; in the latter part at North Cape, Magdalens, Port Hood, and some at Sydney.

13. That I was half of two seasons on the American shores, mackerel-fishing; two hundred and fifty barrels was the most we got. Most of the mackerel there are seined, and I think the seining prevents the booking.

14. That there is a large fleet of American vessels engaged in the codfishing. All the western and Grand Bankers get their bait from the Newfoundland and Dominion shores. They also get their ice there too. The cod fishery is dependent on these herring fisheries for its existence, as without the herring you cannot get codfish.

15. That there is also a large balibut fishery off Newfoundland, Grand Banks, and the Nova Scotia shores. These use herring for bait, and other small fish, but they do not use so much herring as cod fishermen.

16. That the right of transshipment is of value to the Americans, in this way, that they can thereby save three weeks on the trip, which, in good years, would amount to about a trip saved. They can refit at pretty much the same rate as at home.

17. That I believe that trawling and seining are ruinous to fishing, as the trawls catch up the old mother codfish before they spawn. The seining does harm, as it catches big and small, and the small are never used; and when large catches are made there are quantities of fish killed in the seines-and these are lost. I have known vessels take two or three hundred barrels more than could be saved, and these had to be tripped out and went to the bottom.

JAMES HOWLETT.

Sworn to at Georgetown, in King's County, Prince Edward Island, this 31st day of July, A. D. 1877, before me.

DANIEL GORDON,
J. P. for Prince Edward Island.

No. 32.

I, JOHN GRAHAM, of Cavendish, in Queen's County, Prince Edward Island, fisherman, make oath and say:

1. That I have been engaged in fishing off this island, in boats, for about fifteen years, and am acquainted with the fishing grounds.

2. That there are fully forty boats along this beach without reckoning the harbor, and the number is increasing every year. The number of boats along here has doubled, if not trebled, in the last five years, and the boats are better now than then, being better modeled and better built.

3. That these beach boats carry, on an average, crews of three men each; in the harbors the boats carry average crews of five men each, that is, besides the stage men employed on shore, of whom there are a good number.

4. That the average catch of mackerel along this beach would be about one hundred barrels to the boat. The bulk of these fish, I should say three-fourths, are caught within one mile and one-half to two miles from the shore. In the fall, the harbor boats sometimes go further off.

5. That one reason for the increase in the number of boats is, that people can now ship away their own fish, even in small quantities, whereas, formerly, they had to sell to the dealers here for what the latter chose to give. We can always get the cash for the fish now, while for farm-produce and in other business we cannot. It is found to pay now, which is the great reason for going in for fishing. Fishermen handle a good deal of money which they could not get in any other way.

6. That the American fishermen come down here about the first of July, and stop all summer. Sometimes I have seen as many as one hundred and fifty sail of them from this stage at one time, all fishing close to the shore; they fish where the boats do. Latterly, they have been using seines; at one time last year (1876) I saw three of them seining off this shore. I look upon their seining as an injury to our fishing. There were not so many of them here last summer as in some former years, but there have been seventy sail of them off the shore at a time last year.

7. That the Americans often do harm to our fishing by coming in among the boats and taking away the fish. They come in near the shore and throw a lot of bait and then drift off to sea and the fish follow them. We never calculate on doing much for some days after we see the Americans coming inshore, as the fish get full of bait and will not bite. They come in among the boats which are getting fish and lee-bow them, thus causing the mackerel to leave the boats. I never want to see them coming round. After their fleet comes round we cannot do much with the boats. I think that throwing over so much bait, and also throwing the offal of so many fish overboard, injure the fishing.

8. That it is a great advantage to the Americans to be able to come here and fit out for fishing and transship their fish when they have them. They come into Charlottetown and fit out, and they often go into the same port to ship away their fish. They save enough time by having the right of transshipment, to make another voyage to the fishing grounds. The fish get poorer in look and in quality by being kept long in the holds of the vessels, and by being transshipped they are saved from this deterioration, and consequently command higher prices.

The fishermen are also enabled to take advantage of the fluctuations of the fish market, and catch good prices.

JOHN GRAHAM.

Sworn to at Cavendish, in Queen's County, Prince Edward Island, this 11th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me.

ALEX. M. MCNEILL, J. P., Commissioner for taking Affidavits for Queen's County.

No. 33.

I, JOHN R. MCDONALD, of St. Margaret's, in King's County, in Prince Edward Island, farmer and fisherman, make oath and say:

1. That I have had a practical acquaintance with the fishing business for the last eighteen years, all in schooners, both belonging to this island and to the United States. I have fished out of Gloucester, in the United States, for seven years, and I know the gulf-fisheries well. I have been master of fishing schooners for the last eight years, excepting the present year (A. D. 1877).

2. That at the present time I am carrying on a fishing business at New London Harbor, in Queen's County, in said island. There are about one hundred and fifteen boats belonging to and fishing off the New London Harbor and beach at the present time, and I believe they are increasing. There are a lot of new boats fishing here now, and a lot of stages have been put up here during the past year. The reason I give for the increase in the number of boats, and the increased quantity of money invested in boat-fishing, is that, when the people carried on fishing on the coast in a small way, they found the business to pay, and then they went more into it, and the more boats they put into the business, the greater were their profits in proportion to the number of boats employed. It does not cost very much more to run ten boats fishing than it does to run six, because the stages and all the shore expense and outfit would be the same, and the only additional expense would be the actual cost of the new boats with their outfits, and the extra feed and wages of the men on board them, while the profits would be larger. In short, as far as my experience goes, I find the fishing to be a paying business, although some years are better than others.

3. That the boats are now much better built, better rigged and better equipped in every way than they were five years ago. People now take pride in their boats.

4. That the average crews of the boats are about four men to each boat, besides those employed on shore, who are employed at about the rate of four to six men to six boats.

5. That I should call one hundred and fifty barrels a fair average catch of mackerel per boat for the season, taking one year with another; but less than that would pay well.

6. I should think that all the mackerel are caught within three miles of the shore. I found in vessels that I could do nothing more than three miles from the shore. Within the last three or four years none have been caught outside of three miles.

7. That I fished for eight years on board of island schooners in the gulf, as captain. I fished in the schooners Letty, Corsair, Octavia, George S. Fogg, Little Belle, belonging to this island.

8. That I went out fishing in the Corsair about eight years ago. She was of about forty tons burden, and carried a crew of twelve hands. She made two trips that season, mostly along the island shore, and

partly in Bay Chaleur. On board of her, that season, we caught about four hundred and fifty barrels of mackerel.

9. That the year after I was on board the Corsair I fished in the Octavia, a schooner of sixty-four tons burden, belonging to Charlottetown. She carried seventeen hands, and we made three trips, two of which were along this island shore, and one up the Bay Chaleur. In the three trips we caught eight hundred and fifty barrels of mackerel. We did not go in for any other kind of fishing. In both those vessels nearly all the fish were caught inshore, about two miles and from that in being the best fishing. Fully two-thirds of our catches were within two miles of the shore, and nearly all within three miles of the shore.

10. That I fished on board the Letty for two years. She was a schooner of fifty-seven tons burden and carried sixteen hands. We fished altogether on the island coast, and the first year made two trips, and caught five hundred barrels of mackerel, nearly all of which were caught near the shore. The second year we fished in the same places, and caught about four hundred and ninety barrels of mackerel.

11. That the year after I was fishing in the Letty I went in the George S. Fogg, of this island, a schooner of one hundred and three tons burden, and having a crew of twenty-one men. We made two trips in her, and caught in the two trips about seven hundred and eighty barrels of mackerel. These were all caught along the island shore and Nova Scotia coast. Nearly all were caught within three miles of the shore. 12. That last year (1876), which was the worst year I ever knew, I was out in the Little Belle, of thirty-eight tons burden, and carrying twelve men. We only caught one hundred and eighty barrels that year. The fish were too close to the shore for schooners to do much.

13. That almost all the American fishermen fish close in to the shore of the different provinces of the Dominion, and I do not think the Americans would find it worth while to fit out for the gulf fishing if they could not fish near the shore. The year the cutters were about the Americans did not do very much, although they used to dodge the cutters and fish inshore.

14. That I fished on board of American schooners for about seven years in the gulf, and during those years we used to land from six hundred to one thousand barrels the season, averaging about eight bundred barrels. We used then to generally fish about the Magdalen Islands, and close in.

15. That the boat fishermen complain that the American schooners break up the schools of mackerel and injure the boat fishing. They throw so much bait that the fish get glutted and sink to the bottom; won't bite, and very often leave the grounds. The Americans also leebow the boats whenever they see the latter getting mackerel, and take the fish away, when there is no use for the boats to stop there any longer. 16. That the right to land at our ports and harbors, ship away their fish, and take in a new outfit without having to go home, is a very great advantage to the Americans. Outfits are cheaper here than in the United States, and labor also is cheaper, such as coopering. They save a great deal of time, as they can go in and send away their fish and take in a new outfit, and be back on the ground without losing much time, while if they had to go on to the States they would lose about a fortnight each trip, which would amount to a good trip saved in the summer. They can also watch the fish markets and ship away their fish as soon as they land, if the price is up, selling them "to arrive." The mackerel market is a very fluctuating one, so that it is a great advantage to be able to transship without delay. The fish also are getting worse the