Sivut kuvina

provement, because they knew that ar- | the case of the Bridgenorth election petirangements were being made for a very tion, in which the words “sitting Members” extensive Chinese immigration to Cuba ; were also used, was unobjectionable. But, and therefore there was reason to hope the objection being taken in the case of that free labour might soon be employed to Great Yarmouth, he decided that that objeccompete, and to compete successfully, with tion was valid, and therefore fatal to any slave labour in that island. If that hope further proceedings with the petition. He should be realised, and if the Cuban slave did not mean to reflect, in the sightest trade should cease, the West India colonies degreo, upon the examiner of recognisances; would then be no longer exposed to what he no doubt he had endeavoured to discharge could not but look upon as an unfair com- his duty conscientiously, in reference to petition. As he had said before, he did not what he believed to be the requirements think that there was now any practical dif- of the Act of Parliament. But he (Mr. ference of opinion on either side of the Gibson) found fault with the Act itself, House as to anything they had to do. He and asked that it should be amended. believed that the question which the hon. Petitioners would be placed in a great Gentleman (Mr. Wilson) had raised was difficulty if there was no power of amendone purely critical and retrospective, and ing technical objections to recognisances. he was glad to think that that was the In this case the petitioner had found his last time they should ever have to discuss sureties; nobody contended for a moment in that House the question of the sugar that they were not good and substantial duties.

sureties, and capable of undertaking all the Motion agreed to.

liabilities required by the Act. The fifth

clause of the Act gave the form of the THE YARMOUTH PETITION—ELECTION recognisance, and added, " With such al

PETITION RECOGNISANCES. terations as may be necessary to adapt Mr. MILNER GIBSON, on presenting such form to the circumstances of each a petition from the gentlemen who had case,” clearly showing that the Act consigued the recognisances in the petition of templated necessary alterations. There Mr. Torrens M Cullagh against the sitting ought to have been a power in the Act to Members for Great Yarmouth, said that enable the examiner to amend, and to call they believed they had bound themselves by on the sureties to sign the amended form, the recognisances they had signed, regret- so that they might still be liable for costs, ting that the sureties had been declared in- if the decision were against them. The sufficient, and praying the House to redress Motion he had to submit was in the followthe grievance under which they laboured, ing terms:and to take means for preventing that recurrence in future. He wished to call That a Select Committee be appointed to inthe attention of the House to the petition quire into the operation of the Act 11 & 12 Vic., presented by Mr. M.Cullagh, who claimed their opinion whether it is expedient to amend to have been elected for Great Yarmouth, that Act.” and who disputed the return. He did not ask the House to review the decision of the The fourteen days having expired, it was examiner of recognisances, or to pass any out of Mr. M'Cullagh's power to present a opinion of its validity, or in any way to sit new petition. Another circumstance in as a court of appeal

. He was well aware this case was, that the hearing of the obthat the decision of the examiner in these jection was taken at an earlier period than matters was final and conclusive. His the stipulated three days after notice of object was to show that, on the face of the objection. He (Mr. Gibson) brought these proceedings, circumstances had arisen forward this matter solely on' public which rendered it necessary for Parliament grounds, in order that technicalities might to consider whether it might not be neces- not be allowed to stand in the way of jussary to amend the Act itself under which tice. proceedings were taken in reference to the MR. HUME seconded the Motion. trial of election petitions. The reason of MR. WALPOLE said, that if the right the decision was, that the words "sitting hon. Gentleman had made a Motion in Members” were used instead of “sitting conformity with the prayer of the petition, Member.” On the same day the examiner it would have had the effect of doing away had reported that a similar recognisance in with a rule that the House had expressly established, with regard to election recog- should be appointed on this subject, till all nisances. But that question had not been those petitions had been reported upon to raised. Four years ago a question arising the House. The second observation le out of election recognisances had come wished to make, was to guard hintself before that House. A discussion then against the infringement of an important took place respecting the propriety of rule. The great object of throwing upon considering whether those recognisances the sitting Member the duty of entering should be amended, and the petition al- into recognisances, was, that he should not lowed to go on or not. It was contended, take advantage of any default or neglect of on the one hand, that the petitioner ought his own, in having imperfect recognisances, not to be deprived of his right to petition and to ensure the payment of costs which against the sitting Member, and, on the could not be recovered, unless the recogother hand, that the sitting Member had a nisances were valid in form and law. There right to take advantage of every legal was another object : not only to provide objection. A Committee was appointed, against the default or neglect of the petiand soon after an Act was passed con- tioner in not making his recognisances solidating and amending the laws relating perfect, but also to prevent frauds which to election petitions and recognisances, might otherwise be practised in putting which provided that the decision of the the recognisance in a defective form, so examiner with reference to recognisances that the sitting Member, in consequence should be final and conclusive. Such of such defects, would not be entitled to being the law, it seemed clear that the recover the costs to which he was entitled. last thing the House ought to do would be The right hon. Gentleman would have to to repeal what it had taken such pains to consider these points, and also whether he establish, that these matters should be ought not to draw a line between technical settled out of the House, and not give rise and substantial errors. He (Mr. Walpole) to party discussions in the House. The should not object to the appointment of a right hon. Gentleman had alluded to the Committee; but he ought to add, that the cases of the Bridgenorth election petition, appointment of the Committee must not but there was a distinction between those be considered as having any effect on extwo cases. In the Bridgenorth case, the isting petitions. question which was raised was not brought SIR HENRY WILLOUGHBY begged before the examiner, and he had not an to ask if the right hon. Gentleman opportunity of giving an opinion one way (Mr. M. Gibson) intended his Committee or the other with regard to the recognis- to have a retrospective operation ?

But when the Great Yarmouth MR. MILNER GIBSON did not concase was brought before the examiner, the template anything more than was conagents of the sitting Member specifically tained in the order of reference. It might brought this objection to his notice; it be necessary to inquire into particular was his duty to decide upon it, and he cases to discover the abuses that existed, held that it was fatal. With regard to the and their remedy; but he could not foresee point of the three days, the right hon. what course the Committee would decide Gentleman would find that the Act did not upon. give three clear days ; and as the notice Motion agreed to. was given on the 23rd, and the objection entertained on the 26th, it could not be RAILWAY AMALGAMATION. said that the examiner had exceeded his MR. HENLEY moved the appointment duty. The proposition the right hon. of the Members of the Select Committee Gentleman now made was, that a Com-on Railway and Canal Bills. mittee should be appointed to see whether MR. JAMES MACGREGOR said, he any amendments could be introduced into had no objection to any Gentleman nomithe Act, giving the examiner power to nated upon the Committee, but he thought amend recognisances by correcting tech- that, in addition to those already named, nical and clerical errors. He (Mr. Walpole) there should be some Members specially had no objection to such â Committee identified with the railway interest. If being appointed, but he wished to make the right hon. Gentleman the President of two observations upon it. The first was, the Board of Trade had no objection to that there

several election this, he would move that certain Gentlemen petitions then depending, he thought it connected with that interest should be would be undesirable that a Committee added.




MR. SPEAKER said, that the hon. Gen- understand railway matters, they mu stbe tleman could not then make such a Motion; wanting in common sense. he must give notice of it.

Sir HENRY WILLOUGHBY said, he MR. JAMES MACGREGOR said, he quite agreed with the hou. Member for should be sorry to have to give such a Birmingham (Mr. Muntz). He thought notice without the assent of the right hon. that none of these railway magnates should Gentleman the President of the Board of be admitted upon the Committee; they Trade. If, however, he could obtain that would be more useful in the character of assent, he would on Monday next move witnesses than of members. that the names of Mr. Robert Stephenson, The Committee, as nominated, agreed to. Lord Barrington, and General Anson should The House adjourned at Nine o'clock. be added to the Committee.

MR.FREWEN said, that the Committee, as nominated by the right hon. President HOUSE OF LORDS, of the Board of Trade, only consisted of twelve Members; and if the three names

Friday, December 10, 1852. suggested by the hon. Member for Sand- Mixutes.] Public Bills. — 2a West India Cowich (Mr. M Gregor) were added, there

lonies, &c.; Loans Act Amendment ; Comwould not be more than fifteen Members; mons Inclosure. the number which the House had fixed as the limit for a Select Committee.

MILITARY EMIGRATION TO THE CAPE. MR. HENLEY said, that if the House The Duke of RICHMOND rose to preand the railway interest wished that the sent a Petition from Anthony Alexander additional names proposed should be placed O'Reilly, late a Colonel in Her Majesty's upon the Committee, he should offer no Service, and since a settler in the colony objection to it. The only reason he did of the Cape of Good Hope, complaining of not place on the Committee some Gentle having suffered severe loss at the hands of men connected with the railway interest the Kafirs, and praying for relief. The was, because there were so many directors noble Duke knew nothing at all personally in that House, that he was afraid to offend of the individual whose name was attached by making a selection.

to it; but that gentleman had sent him a MR. HINDLEY said, he did not at all certificate of his having served as an officer agree with the hon. Member for Sandwich. in the British Army for fifty-two years, He thought that the Conmittee should be during which time it would appear, from wholly independent of the railway interest. general and private orders, that he had He was quite sure that the Gentlemen merited and gained the esteem of his comnamed for the Committee would do per- manding officers and fellow soldiers. This fect justice to it; and, if they did not, the gentleman was, a few years ago, prevailed railway companies had sufficient influence upon by the inducements which were held in that House to protect themselves. If out by the late Government, and after they placed on the Committee General fifty-two years' service in the Army, to Anson, the chairman of the London and dispose of his commission for the purpose North-Western Company, they would have of settling at the Cape of Good Hope. He a demand that the Chairman of the Great accordingly took a farm there, and was Northern should also be on the Committee, going on remarkably well. He had a great and in like manner the chairmen of other quantity of stock, was possessed of the best railways.

implements of husbandry, and was in all MR. GEACH said, he thought it desira- respects a thriving farmer, when the Kafir ble that when questions connected with a war broke out—one of those “ little wars" particular interest were to be investigated, which had always proved so detrimental to that interest should be represented on the this country, and which would have been Committee, whose deliberations would, he settled immediately had they sent out believed, be materiaHy assisted by the pre- 7,000, or 8,000 British Infantry at the sence of Gentlemen more particularly ac- beginning. The consequence was that the quainted with railway matters.

Kafirs made an inroad upon this gentleMR. MUNTZ begged to remark that if man's farm, seized his cattle and horses, the Committee desired any information from the Hottentot levies deserted him, and it the chairmen of railways, they could be was with the utmost difficulty that he and examined as witnesses. If the Members his son escaped with their lives.

By that of the House generally did not themselves inroad of the savages he was totally and

1205 Relations of Landlord {Dec. 10, 1852} and Tenant in Ireland. 1206 entirely ruined; and now, after fifty-two impossible that the Government could give years spent in the service of his country, compensation for losses so sustained. Their the only way in which this gentleman was doing so now would involve the necessity at present enabled to get a bit of bread to of making compensation in every similar put in his mouth was by going to labour case which might arise. in the fields. Now, he (the Duke of Rich- Petition read and ordered to lie on the mond) contended that this was a case of table. very great hardship. He contended also, that the Government ought not to recom- RELATIONS OF LANDLORD AND TENANT mend officers in the Army, or any other

IN IRELAND. persons, to go out as settlers to the Colo- The Earl of RODEN said, he was anxious nies, unless they intended to protect them to put a question to his noble Friend the there against the inroads of savage tribes. First Lord of the Treasury, on a subject And, moreover, he would say to old offi- of the deepest importance, not only to that cers, if they would take his advice, “Stick part of the Empire to which it referred, but to the Army, and don't go out as settlers,” to the Empire at large. In doing so, howfor nineteen out of twenty, after they be ever, he must ask pardon of the noble Earl came settlers, deeply regretted having left for having departed from the custom of a service in which, at least, they had en. that House, and omitted to give him the joyed a well-merited reputation. The case usual notice. It was now Friday night, he had mentioned was, he repeated, one of and if he were then to give notice to the very great hardship, and left a consider- noble Earl, he would not have an opporable amount of responsibility on the Go tunity of putting his question and receiving vernment which encouraged such settle- an answer until Monday, and he feared that ments. He did not know whether the great apprehension and anxiety would arise Governmeut at home could be of any ser- in the minds of those to whom the subject vice to the petitioner; still he did think referred in the interval. On referring to that it was a case of very crying hardship, the reports of the proceedings in the other and one that, at all events, justified him in House of Parliament, a few days ago, he having occupied their Lordships' time and confessed he was extremely surprised and attention for a few moments.

alarmed to find, on the introduction of The Earl of DESART thanked the certain Bills connected with landlord and noble Duke for the notice he had given of tenant arrangements in Ireland that one of his intention to present the petition, and the Bills so presented to the House was one assured him, that neither Her Majesty's that was better known by the name of Government nor he (the Earl of Desart) “Mr. Sharman Crawford's Bill.” Now, felt less commiseration than did his noble he begged to remind their Lordships that Friend himself for this gentleman's case. that measure had been twice at least under The facts of the case were these. This the consideration of the House of Commons, gentleman had served fifty-two years in and on each occasion had been almost the Army, but in 1848 he sold out, and unanimously rejected. It had been conavailing himself of certain indulgences ceded, not alone by Gentlemen seated on which were given by the Government, in- one side of the House or the other, but by vested the proceeds of the sale of his com- men of all parties, that that Bill partook of mission, 4,0001., in the purchase of land at a character which was calculated to overthe Cape of Good Hope; but at the end throw the best interests of property in of the year 1851 an inroad of Kafirs took whatever country it might chance to beplace upon his farm, and owing to the come law. He was sure that no one in treachery of his servants he had difficulty their Lordships' House would ever sanction in escaping with his life, his premises were so unjust a proposition, and therefore he destroyed, as the noble Duke had stated, had no fear of its ever passing into law; and he had since been compelled to work but the circumstance to which he had in the fields. He granted that it was a alluded must, he was confident, have the case which demanded the warmest com- effect of greatly agitating the minds of all miseration; at the same time, however, it persons who were possessed of property in must be remembered that when this gen- Ireland, and of imparting feelings of triumph tleman sold his commission, he assumed to those who baving no property themselves the character and placed himself exactly wished to destroy the property of others. in the position of any other colonist at the The night before last this measure was Cape. Under these circumstances it was introduced with other measures to the con


sideration of the House of Commons, and subject which more deserved, and particuwith those other measures was proposed larly at this moment, the attention of those for a second reading, and the proposer of who were anxious to see the landed prothat second reading was one of Her Ma- perty of Ireland recovering from the dejesty's Ministers, a colleague of his noble pressed condition in which in which it had Friend at the head of the Government. been for the last few years.

The conseHe (the Earl of Roden) would not attempt quence of the attention which the Irish to express

what must be the feelings of all Government gave to this subject was, that, loyal men, all men of property in Ireland, with great pain and labour, the Attorney when they found that, so far as they had General for Ireland, more especially assistgone, Her Majesty's Ministers seemed to ed by the Solicitor General and the Chief have sanctioned a measure which contained Secretary for Ireland, prepared what might propositions of so Communist a character be almost considered as a code of laws havthat it had been twice rejected by the ing reference to the relations between landHouse of Commons as one which it was lord and tenant, comprised in four separate totally impossible that Parliament could Bills, every one having distinct objects, give its assent to. The question which he but all connected closely together, and would take the liberty of putting to his bearing upon one auother. The first of noble Friend was, whether the proceedings these Bills bad, he believed, the effect of which had been adopted in the other House facilitating the application of capital to of Parliament had been taken with his land by the tenant for life, the tenant for sanction; and in case the Select Committee life being, under certain circumstances, to which the Bill had been referred should authorised to charge the expense as an unhappily sanction the measure one advance from himself personally to the proper to be adopted, whether Her Ma- estate, consequently rendering facilities for jesty's Government were prepared to sup- the application of capital to land. The port and carry it into law ?

second Bill gave facilities, under certain The EARL of DERBY said, he had no circumstances, for the application of capidifficulty in answering the question of his tal to the land by the tenants, with the connoble Friend, because his attention had sent of their landlords, subject to the conbeen called to the matter he referred to trol and superintendence of the Board of yesterday or the day before by some of the Works especially, the machinery of which representatives for Ireland, who shared in had been employed with great success of the apprehensions which his noble Friend late years in Ireland. The third was a entertained in consequence of what took most important Bill for consolidating and place in the House of Commons two or bringing into one statute the whole of the three nights ago.

But in order to make law having reference to the relations beintelligible what did take place on that tween landlord and tenant in Irelanda occasion, he would explain what his noble work of great detail and involving much Friend might be perfectly familiar with, but consideration, but which, if successfully some of their Lordships might not so well carried into effect, would not only mateknow—the circumstances under which the rially improve, but greatly simplify and transaction took place to which his noble render of much more easy reference, the Friend had adverted. It was in the know- existing law, which was now spread over ledge of his noble Friend, and, probably, some hundred of statutes. The fourth of most of their Lordships, that the atten- Bill was intended to settle the terms under tion of the Irish Government, and especially which compensation could be claimed by of the Attorney General for Ireland, of the tenant and enforced against the landwhom he might say that no Government land for unexhausted improvements, subhad ever had the services of a more able, ject to certain restrictions and regulations. zealous, and useful officer, had since their These four Bills, all bearing upon one anaccession to office been directed to the best other, stood a few nights ago for a second means of developing the resources of Ire- reading in the House of Commons; and he land, of encouraging the application of thought their Lordships would readily agree capital to the land of Ireland, and of im- that if they were to pass at all, or receive proving the relations subsisting between due consideration by Parliament, it was desilandlord and tenant in Ireland; and how- rable that no time should be lost with a view ever delicate and difficult some portions of of obtaining a second reading of those Bills, that subject might be, he was sure their and in order that they might be sent with Lordships would admit that there was no the least delay to the investigation of Com

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