send to the Governors of the Hospital to | same time, lay on the table of the House know what observations they had to make an estimate of the probable expense. upon it. He should think it his duty to The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHElay the Report, with their observations, on QUER: I also take this opportunity of rethe table of the House, in order that Par- ferring to a subject mentioned yesterday. liament might consider and determine the It is my intention on the 26th of Novemcourse proper to be taken. Those obser- ber to lay before the House those alteravations he had pressed for from time to tions in our system of taxation which we time, and he had been informed that they think the change in our commercial syswould be sent. They had, however, not tem renders necessary. The House will yet come; and without them he did not permit me to say, if any notice is brought think it exactly fair towards the Governors forward the object of which is to prevent of the Hospital to lay the Report upon the me making that statement, I reserve to table. He thought it only right that myself the right to take a different course. those who were implicated by the inquiry should have an opportunity of stating their

case.

MESSAGE FROM THE CROWN-FUNERAL
OF THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON.

The Right Hon. Cecil Forester, Comptroller of the Household, appeared at the bar, and stated that he had a Message from Her Majesty. The right hon. Gentleman then advanced to the Chair, and delivered the message into the hands of Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER read the Message, as follows:

"VICTORIA R.

"Her Majesty, desirous of marking in the most solemn manner Her sense of the pre-eminent Services of the late Field Marshal the Duke of Wellington, and of affording to Her subjects an oppor. tunity of testifying their veneration for his memory and their sorrow for the loss which they have sustained by his death, has directed that measures should be taken for the public interment, at the earliest possible period, of His Grace's mortal remains in the Cathedral Church of St. Paul's. The Queen is persuaded that, in taking this step, Her Majesty has only anticipated the general wishes of Parliament and of the Country, and that you will afford to Her Majesty your cordial aid and concurrence in giving to the mournful ceremony a degree of solemnity and importance worthy of the Country and of the occasion.

“Her Majesty relies on the liberality of Her faithful Commons to make suitable provision for the due discharge of this debt of Public Gratitude and

tribute of National sorrow."

The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said: I will propose for the consideration of the House an answer to Her Majesty's most gracious Message on Monday next.

MR. HUME would beg to suggest that the right hon. Gentleman should, at the VOL. CXXIII. [THIRD SERIES.]

THE ADDRESS-REPORT. LORD LOVAINE brought up the Report on the Address.

Her

MR. FAGAN said, he had reason to complain of a statement put forth in the Speech last evening. Hon. Members complained yesterday of the ambiguity and deception which characterised some portions of that document; but he thought the Irish Members had more right to complain of the unnecessary and uncalled-for libel it contained on the people of Iroland. Majesty had been advised to state to the House that there existed in Ireland " an unhappy spirit of insubordination and turbulence. For his part, he was not in a position to guess at what that allusion pointed. If it was to agrarian disturbances, he would join with the Government in endeavouring to repress those disturbances which were a stain on the country, and tended to prevent the amelioration of its social condition. But he did not believe that that was the intention of the allusion. Neither did he believe that the noble Lord the Member for London (Lord John Russell) was right in supposing that reference was made to the natural excitement at the last elections in Ireland. What was the cause of that excitement? He traced the cause to a proclamation of the Government which revived the forgotten penalties of the Emancipation Act, and interfered to prevent many of the religious services of the Roman Catholic population. The result of that proclamation was seen in the Stockport riots, and

in the insults offered to the Roman Catholic clergy in the public streets immediately after it was issued. Speaking of the city which he represented, and which had been pointed to as one where excitement existed during the recent election, he knew that the excitement was not greater on that occasion than at any former election. He must therefore say that the expression in

F

Her Majesty's Speech relating to Ireland would lend its aid to maintain the authowas a libel, uncalled for, and totally unde-rity of the law. If the Government had served; and at that moment he could say meditated any present appeal to Parliament with all sincerity that he did not know to on this head, the language would have been what the Government alluded. With re- different. For a long series of years past spect to the relations between landlord and it had been the complaint of Irish Memtenant in Ireland, he was afraid the mea-bers that no remedial measures had been sures contemplated by the right hon. and brought forward with a view to ameliorate learned Attorney General for Ireland would the social condition of the people, and esnot give satisfaction. He was greatly afraid pecially the relationship between landlord it was the right hon. and learned Gentle- and tenant; and thence, they contended, man's intention to leave the whole matter the necessity for Coercion Bills. Now, to the landlords in Ireland. It was no however, Her Majesty did not say she askdoubt the interest of the landlords of Ire-ed for any coercive measures with regard land to develop the resources of the coun- to Ireland. So far from that, she sugtry; but he (Mr. Fagan) was afraid, judg-gested to Parliament what he (the Attoring from past experience, that they were ney General for Ireland) hoped Parliament blinded to their own interest; and he was of opinion that if the Government wished to develop the natural wealth of Ireland, they could not attain that end by leaving the matter in the hands of the landlords, and without doing at the same time justice to the tenant-farmers.

MR. NAPIER said, if any libel had been meant upon Ireland in the passage in question, he should have been quite as ready to resent such an imputation as the hon. Gentleman the Member for Cork himself (Mr. Fagan). But, the truth was, there had been such a deliberate design on the part of some persons to misunderstand portions of Her Majesty's Speech, and such a determination that plain language and plain English should be ambiguous, that really he was not surprised that persons should again come down to the House to torture from passages in that document a meaning they were never intended to express. The passage of the Speech in which allusion was made to Ireland was as follows:

"I trust that the general improvement, notwithstanding many obstacles, has extended to Ireland; and while I rely with confidence on your aid, should it be required, to restrain that unhappy spirit of insubordination and turbulence, which produces many and aggravates all of the evils which afflict that portion of my dominions, I recommend to you the adoption of such a liberal and generous policy towards Ireland as may encourage and assist her to rally from the depression in which she has been sunk by the sufferings of late years." How it was possible to torture this passage into a call upon Parliament to adopt coercive measures towards Ireland, he was at a loss to conceive. The language was plain and direct, and meant that, in the event of bad men taking advantage of the spirit of insubordination, which it must be admitted had existed in Ireland, Her Majesty's Government hoped that Parliament

would be ready to carry out, and what Ireland needed and expected, and had a right to expect-a liberal, generous, and high-minded policy, to enable it to rise from the depression in which it had lately been sunk. With respect to the Bills which he himself intended to introduce, he would ask that before any discussion took place on those Bills, they should be read and understood. He did not know whether those measures would satisfy the hon. Member for Cork; but he hoped they would satisfy all those who were sincere in desiring the welfare and prosperity of Ireland.

MR. JOHN MACGREGOR said, he wished to notice a passage in the Speech which related to the difficulties or the misunderstandings that had taken place between this country and that of the United States of America, on the subject of the North American fisheries. That was a question of the greatest importance, inasmuch as it might have broken the peace and tranquillity existing between this country and the United States, and prevented the reception in this country of the raw material of cotton so necessary for our manufactures. His view with regard to that question corresponded with that taken by Mr. Pitt immediately after the peace of 1783, when a proposal was made during the Presidency of Washington, by Mr. Adams, for placing the commercial and maritime intercourse between England and the United States on the footing of a coasting trade. That proposal fell through in consequence of the breaking-up of the Shelburne Administration, in which Mr. Pitt was Chancellor of the Exchequer. The amazing progress of America since 1759, when we conquered Canada, rendered such a policy more than ever desirable. Ninety

CAPTAIN WALCOTT said, he begged to trespass on the attention of the House for a few moments while he adverted to the first topic referred to in the Address. He rose for the purpose of expressing his admiration of an illustrious individual whose services were known and acknowledged throughout the world. He rejoiced that it was the intention of the country to place his remains in St. Paul's Cathedral, by the side of the heroic Nelson; and no person could ever pass that building without offering a thanksgiving to God that two such men had been given to promote the glory and welfare of the country. He was sure that through the length and breadth of the land but one opinion would prevail as to the merits of that illustrious individual, and that every mark of national gratitude would be paid to his remains.

Sir,

I

three years ago, there was no British sub- | American Colonies would have a free inject who possessed an acre of land north tercourse with the United States. of a few small villages in Nova Scotia and Maine, nor south of a small colony in Georgia, nor east of the Alleghany Mountains. Now, all the countries from the shores of the Atlantic to the coasts of the Pacific; from Hudson's Bay to the Gulf of Mexico, were under the dominion of two great Governments, the British and the United States, the inhabitants of which speak, write, and legislate in the English language. The population during the same period had increased from less than two millions to more than thirty millions. If there was one policy more than another which the Government should pursue, it should be to maintain amicable relations between this country and the United States, by placing all the navigation of all the British dominions in North America and the United States as nearly as possible upon the footing of a coasting trade; to allow the citizens of the United States to fish without restriction in the British American Seas, on condition that the fish caught or cured, by British fishermen, should be admitted free of duty for consumption in the United States; and to admit all British colonial articles, on payment of no other duties than we should be paid on similar articles imported from the United States into the said Colonies. During the period of the late Government, when his noble Friend the Member for Tiverton (Viscount Palmerston) held the seals of the Foreign Office, and also during the term that the Earl of Aberdeen was Foreign Secretary, those amicable relations had been kept up. The Earl of Aberdeen had most wisely made those concessions to the fisheries, and maintained the harmony which it was just and proper to observe. In consequence also of the adjustment of the boundary question and the settlement of the Oregon boundary, the affairs of this country and the United States were put on such a footing as to leave no cause of disagreement between the two countries except this fishery question. Every commercial man in the country looked forward with the greatest anxiety to the satisfactory adjustment of the fishery question; and he trusted the negotiations now pending would be settled upon the principle of a free and uninterrupted course between the countries. He trusted that the citizens of the United States would have the freedom of fishing in the British North American seas, and that the British North

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON : called the attention of Her Majesty's Government yesterday to that passage in Her Majesty's Speech which alludes to the cooperation of the Government of Brazil for the suppression of the slave trade, and to the significant omission of any mention in that paragraph of a similar co-operation on the part of the Spanish Government to put an end to the slave trade in Cuba. I am afraid that omission is but too significant, considering that we have seen lately in the newspapers an account of the landing of several cargoes of slaves on the coast of Cuba. It is undoubtedly without any excuse on the part of the Spanish Government that such an infraction of the treaty between Spain and this country should continue. I am afraid there are influences at Madrid, and pecuniary interests in Cuba, which tend to induce the Government of Spain to forget its treaty obligations, and to omit to perform its duty in regard to this important matter. It has exposed itself also to the imputationwhether well or ill founded it is not for me to say-that it is part of its policy, with regard to the retention of the island of Cuba, to encourage the increase of the black population, believing that in proportion as the blacks increase, the fears of the whites may increase also; and that the increase of the slave population may tend to make the white population cling more closely to the mother country for protection. I do hope that no such motive influences the Government of Spain. object in rising is to state to Her Majesty's

My

Government that I would wish, after this | Parliament should be repealed, and that Motion is disposed of, if they see no objec- the Parliament of Canada should have tion, to move for a return of the number power, with the consent of the Crown, to of negroes landed in Brazil and Cuba re-deal with the subject. The right hon. spectively, from the date in 1851 at which Gentleman stated last year very fairly that the last return was made up, to the latest pe- that had been the decision of one Parliariod in 1852 to which information has been ment in Canada, but that a general elecreceived. I am sure the Government can tion had taken place, that the decision of have no objection to grant those returns, the new Assembly might be different, and which will show the extent to which the that they might no longer express that Spanish and Brazilian Governments have wish. For my own part, if the people of adhered to their obligations. Canada are contented with the arrangements made by the Imperial Parliament, it would be very desirable that they should be continued; but if, on the other hand, it was the decided wish of the people of Canada, as expressed by their Parliament and by their representatives, that a different arrangement and distribution should be made of the funds raised for the Clergy Reserves, I think, provided the interests of the present holders should be secured, and no vested interests affected, it is a subject entirely for the people of Canada. I cannot conceive that either the Crown or the people of this country have the smallest interest in wishing to prevent the settlement of that question by the representatives of such an important province as Canada, with its large population, and in the united form it now is. There was a despatch sent out on the subject that seemed to go more into the merits of the question than it was necessary to do, but on which I wish to make no remark. It appears that there has been in the new Parliament of Canada a considerable discussion on the subject, which has been transmitted to me in a newspaper, and that a resolution proposed by the Ministers, expressing a wish that an Address should be presented to the Crown, praying that they might have full power with the question, has been carried, I understand, by a majority of 54 to 22. Under these circumstances, I should think that the Government can have no difficulty in introducing a measure in a short time to enable the Parliament of Canada to deal with the subject. As no notice has been taken of it in the Speech from the Throne, I beg to ask the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Colonies if the Government have come to any decision respecting it?

MR. MAGAN said, he wished to have an explanation as to what was meant in the Speech from the Throne by "the spirit of insubordination and turbulence in Ireland?" The right hon. and learned Gentleman the Attorney General for Ireland had explained the matter as well as he could, and he understood him to say that the phrase had reference to past insubordination and turbulence; but it was placed in the Speech in the present tense, and the Irish Members were exceedingly anxious that the noble Lord the Chief Secretary for Ireland would tell them in that plain language for which the Government were so justly celebrated, according to their own account, what meaning he attached to these words. Did it mean that the people were not ready to submit to the brutal efforts that were used in nearly every county in Ireland by the emissaries and agents of Her Majesty's Government to vote against their own consciences? That was the fact. He did not intend to enter into any lengthened discussion at present; but some other opportunity would offer on which he would call attention to the conduct of the agents of the Government in three counties with which he was connected, and particularly in the county represented by him. He hoped the noble Lord would have no objection to act as the dictionary of the Government, and tell them what was meant by those words to which he had alluded.

LORD JOHN RUSSELL: Sir, there are some important subjects referred to in Her Majesty's Speech, of which no notice has been taken-one with regard to the Burmese war, and another with regard to the continuance of the war with the Kafirs at the Cape of Good Hope. There is another subject on which I should wish to ask a question of the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Colonies. Some time ago the Parliament of Canada expressed a desire that the Act with regard to the Clergy Reserves of the Imperial

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON: I can assure the noble Lord and the House that I am quite sensible, and so are Her Majesty's Government, of the importance of the subject to which he has called my attention. The noble Lord has adverted with perfect

accuracy to what fell from me on this sub- MR. HUME said, he wished to refer for ject last Session, and the despatch sent a moment to what had fallen from the noble out to Canada respecting it. The noble Lord the Member for Tiverton (Viscount Lord has also adverted to the proceedings Palmerston) on the subject of the slave that have lately taken place in the new trade. The noble Lord had taken a warmer Parliament in Canada. I believe that on interest in this subject, and had been longer the division which took place, the numbers engaged in endeavouring to prevent that approached very nearly to what the noble traffic, than any other man. He gave him Lord has stated; but it was only one of credit for the object he had in view, and several divisions that took place on the he asked the noble Lord whether the time subject. The resolution that has been had not come when he might, with advanagreed to, and the proceedings of the Ca- tage, bring the whole question before the nadian Parliament, have been forwarded House? We had paid some 900,000l. to by the Governor General, have been re- Spain, and some 400,000l. or 500,000l. ceived, and are now under the considera- to Portugal, on the express condition of tion of Her Majesty's Government. There- their suppressing the slave trade; and he fore, I am not at present prepared to an- thought the noble Lord might, with great nounce definitely the intentions of the Go- propriety, take an early opportunity of vernment; but when a decision is formed stating to the House what our engageit will be made known. The noble Lord ments were with those countries; what having adverted to another subject of great we had paid them; whether any return and general interest-the Kafir war-I had been made for those payments; and regret it is not in my power to communi- what steps ought now to be taken. He cate at this moment intelligence on that wished also, before sitting down, to call subject so decided as I would wish. It is the attention of the Government to a renow nearly a month since any additional quest made by an hon. Member from Irereports have been received; but I am land (Mr. Magan). The hon. Gentleman happy to say that the additional reports we asked a simple question, and courtesy rereceived by the mail in October were cer- quired that it should be answered. There tainly of a more satisfactory character was a doubt as to the precise meaning of than any that had been received for a long certain words in the Royal Speech, used period. We have had long experience of with reference to Ireland, and he thought the protracted and tiresome nature of the an answer to the question should be given. war; but, judging from those reports, the war appeared to be gradually dying away and wearing itself out, and we may expect that the next mail may bring us some satisfactory information.

SIR DE LACY EVANS said, he thought that information should be afforded them from time to time which would enable that House to judge of the events that were taking place at the Cape, the House not being at present clearly informed as to what objects are contemplated in earrying on the war. One event had occurred on which he begged to congratulate the Government-he meant the arrangement with Mr. Prætorius and the boers who acted in conjunction with him. It was very much to be lamented that that course had not been adopted some years ago, and he should like to know if they might anticipate some amicable arrangement with the other inhabitants of those territories, founded upon similar principles. He hoped the right hon. Gentleman would soon be able to lay despatches on the table showing the objects of the war, and the prospects of a final termination of it.

LORD NAAS said, the question put to him by the hon. Member for Westmeath was simply whether he would give an interpretation of a paragraph of Her Majesty's Speech which referred to Ireland. Holding the opinion he did, that that paragraph was perfectly intelligible and clear, he could not add, by any explanation he could give, anything to the clearness of the passage, or to the explanations that that had been already given by his right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney General for Ireland. If an assurance on the part of Her Majesty that the Government was prepared to deal in a liberal and generous manner with Irish affairs and interests, did not please or suit hon. Gentlemen opposite, it was not the fault of the Government.

MR. HADFIELD begged to call the attention of the House to the paragraph in the Speech which referred to legal reform, and said he must complain of the expense and inconvenience of refusing probates in different parts of the country where property was transferred. He wished to know whether by the recent arrangements one pro