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bate would serve for the property of testa- to answer the question of an hon. Memtors in all parts of the country?

ber for an Irish county, and then an anMR. SIDNEY HERBERT: Sir, I wish swer was reluctantly given to the remark to ask a question with reference to part of of the hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. the Speech on which no information has Hume), by the noble Lord the Chief Secreyet been given. The paragraph in the tary for Ireland. Being a very plain man Speech referring to the difficulties that himself, he understood plain English acarose during the last summer with recording to its ordinary sense and meaning, spect to our Colonial fisheries conveys an and when Her Majesty was advised by Her impression as to the origin of those diffi- Ministers to speak of “ an unhappy spirit culties, and as to the course taken with re- of insubordination and turbulence which gard to them, and likewise as to the result produces many and aggravates all of the likely to ensue from the negotiations, at evils which afflict that portion of Her Mavariance, I think, with the public impres- jesty's dominions,” he understood the sions on the subject. Of course, the in- Queen to mean, and he understood Her formation in the hands of the Government, Majesty's Ministers to mean, if they meant on the subject to which this paragraph anything, that there is now existing alludes, would, if produced at once, set unhappy spirit of insubordination and turat rest any doubts that exist on that bulence in that part of her dominions,' point. I gather from the conclusion of which seriously increases and aggravates the second paragraph that those negotia- the evils by which they are aflicted. tions are not yet terminated, and in that Now, they had no explanation of that case, of course, it would not be proper to language. Were the Members sent from press the Government to give any informa- Ireland to that House to understand that tion or lay any papers on the table of the it was not the intention of Ministers to House respecting them; but it is important propose any measure for the repression of we should know if there be a prospect of an existing unhappy spirit of insubordinaan early settlement of the question, and at tion and turbulence?” He rather guessed what period the Government would be it from what had been said by the right enabled to lay on the table of the House hon. and learned Gentleman the Attorney the papers and correspondence respecting General for Ireland; but the right hon. these negotiations.

and learned Geutleman did not say it The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE- very distinctly, nor, indeed, had anyQUER : Sir, it will be quite impossible thing been said very distinctly by any for Her Majesty's Government, in the hon. Gentleman who had spoken on the present state of the question, to lay any other side of the House. The only Mempapers on the table of the House. I can ber who spoke out on that side, was an only repeat what I believe is mentioned in hon. and learned Friend of his, the hon. the Speech, that the Government of the and learned Gentleman who seconded the United States has agreed to enter into ne- Address, and he did come out boldly and gotiations with us in the most friendly frankly with the declaration that he was spirit, and in such a way as to lead to in- for free trade. The hon. Gentlemen who creased commercial relations between the came after him did not seem inclined to foltwo countries. The spirit in which the low the lead, and they hemmed and hawed, negotiations between the two Governments and spoke in such a way that a new Memhave taken place, has been of the most ber of the House could not, at all events, friendly character, and I think the result understand what they meant. After the will prove very satisfactory; but, of course, right hon. and learned Gentleman the under these circumstances the House can- Attorney General for celand had spoken, not expect that the Government will lay the noble Lord the Chief Secretary for any papers on the table on this subject. Ireland stood up and expected them to

MR. SHEE said, he was unacquainted believe that those words,“ insubordinawith the course which was generally adopt- tion and turbulence,” were only inserted ed by Government in answering questions in the Speech to make a rounded put to them by independent Members of period ; and that the real purport of the House; but when questions were put the sentence was to inform the House in terms of courtesy to Her Majesty's that that which was not to be expected Ministers, he did not think they should from the hon. Gentlemen opposite-namegive such off-hand answers as had been ly, a course of generous and liberal meagiven that evening. First, they refused sures for Ireland was all that was in

141 Bills of Exchange and Notes {Nov. 12, 1852} (Metropolis) Bill. 142 tended by this sentence in Her Majesty's clear. Still, however, he must say, that Speech. The right hon. and learned turbulence and insubordination to a cerAttorney General for Ireland and the tain extent did unquestionably exist in Irenoble Lord the Secretary for Ireland had land. He did not wish to provoke disboth spoken; and he (Mr. Shee) now cussion, yet everybody must be aware that appealed to the candour of his right one of the last things which it was neceshon. Friend the Secretary of State for sary for the Government to do before the the Home Department, who was speci- dissolution of the late Parliament was to ally charged, as a Member of Her Ma- renew a Bill for one year for proclaiming jesty's Government, with the administra- certain districts in Ireland, in consequence tion of the affairs of Ireland, and he asked of there then being counties in Ireland him first, would he get up in that House exposed to what might be called turbulence and say that the words in Her Majesty's and insubordination, which rendered that Speech to which attention had been called Act necessary. In some counties it was did not mean, yesterday, whatever they still necessary to continue the operation of meant that day, an existing spirit of in- that Act. But he, for one, should be glad subordination and turbulence in Ireland,” to find that the generous and liberal powhich it was the intention of Her Majesty's licy alluded to in the same paragraph of Ministers to repress? If they did not mean the Queen's Speech, and more pointedly ihat yesterday, what did they mean? Did alluded to than the turbulence and insubhon. Gentlemen opposite intend to tell that ordination, might have the effect of reHouse that the Government had advised moving all necessity at no distant period Her Majesty to insert words of mere insult for any of those measures which had pecuin the Speech with reference to Her Ma- liarly affected Ireland in consequence of jesty's subjects in Ireland ? Her Majesty the turbulence and insubordination which bad visited that part of Her dominions but a had prevailed there. The meaning of the short time ago, and was received in a man- paragraph in the Queen's Speech was both ner in which she had never been received general and particular: general, inasmuch in this country, notwithstanding the at- as the Government did not intend to do tachment of the people of this country to anything in respect to Ireland of any sort Her person and family, and the loyalty or kind which could be construed as conthey had always evinced. He asked his trary to a generous and liberal policy, right hon. Friend the Secretary of State taken in the largest sense of the word; for the Home Department if yesterday and particular, inasmuch as it was intended (whatever they meant that day) those words in the course of the Session to bring in did not mean that there was an existing certain measures of a liberal and generous spirit of insubordination and turbulence in policy towards Ireland, and, among them, Ireland, which it was the intention of Her a settlement of the whole relations between Majesty's Government to repress ? He landlord and tenant, including in that setwished, secondly, to ask him to state dis- tlement the much-vexed question which tinctly that they might know the inten- was now anxiously discussed in Irelandtions of Government before the Motion of namely, compensation for unexhausted imthe hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. provements. This was the policy which they C. Villiers) was submitted to the House- intended to pursue, and he trusted that whether Her Majesty's Government intend it would be responded to by the people of to propose any coercive measures of any Ireland in the spirit in which it was offered. kind, or any measures restrictive of the Report agreed to. civil and religious liberties of Her Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects in Ireland ?


(METROPOLIS) BILL, and learned Friend having pointedly re- MR. WALPOLE said, he begged to ferred to him, he rose to answer the ques- give notice of his intention to bring in a tion. He understood his hon, and learned Bill, which would require the suspension Friend to ask whether by the latter words of all the Standing Orders, in order that of the Address the Government meant to it might pass through the House on Monsay that they intended to bring in any day next. The object of the Bill would measure to repress the turbulence and in- be to declare that the day appointed for subordination there alluded to. His an- the funeral of the Duke of Wellington swer was, that the Government did not, should, as regards the payment of bills and he hoped that answer was distinct and of exchange and promissory notes, be

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treated as the “Lord's-day," commonly rence of your Lordships. And if I had called Sunday. From all he could hear, not been convinced of this before, the lanhe believed that if some such provision guage of general eulogy which I heard in were not made, great inconvenience would this House a few days ago would have rebe experienced by the commercial and lieved me from the necessity of addressing banking classes.

your Lordships at any length, and would The House adjourned at Six o'clock. have made me perfectly certain that you

would have but one feeling as to the pro

priety of doing all that you at present can HOUSE OF LORDS,

to honour the memory of the late Duke of
Monday, November 15, 1852. Wellington in that public funeral which

Her Majesty, in anticipation of the wishes
MINUTES.] Took the Oaths.-Several Lords. of Parliament and the country, has already
Sat First in Parliament.-The Lord Panmure, directed. I beg therefore to move
after the Death of his Father.

“ That an humble Address be presented to Her THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON'S FUNERAL Majesty, to express to Her Majesty the Thanks (BILLS OF EXCHANGE AND NOTES) of this House for Her Majesty's most Gracious

Message of Friday last, humbly to thank Her BILL.

Majesty for having given Directions for the The Earl of DERBY: My Lords, I Public Interment of the mortal Remains of His have to move the First Reading of a Bill Grace The Duke of Wellington in the Cathedral

Church of Saint Paul, and to assure Her Majesty which has been passed by the other House of the cordial Aid and Concurrence of this House of Parliament under rather peculiar cir- in giving to the Ceremony a fitting Degree of cumstances, which make it necessary that Solemnity and Importance.” I should ask your Lordships to dispense On Question, agreed to, Nemine Diswith your Standing Orders in order that it sentiente. might be passed as speedily as possible. The EARL of DERBY then said : I have The Government has received representa- now to move the following Resolution :tions on the part of a great number of merchants and commercial men of the city of of the Funeral of Arthur Duke of Wellington in

“ That this House will attend at the Solemnity London, with respect to the great inconve- the Cathedral Church of St. Paul on Thursday nience that will arise in connexion with the next." presentation and payment of bills falling

On Question, agreed to, Nemine Disdue on Thursday next, the day of the Duke

sentiente. of Wellington's funeral, unless some ar

It was also movedrangements be made by Parliament. It is proposed, therefore, to enact that Thurs- sider the Circumstances relating to the Attend

" That a Select Committee be appointed to conday next shall be considered a dies non; ance of this House and their Place at the Solemand that all bills falling due on that day nity of the Funeral of Field Marshal the late Duke shall be presented and be payable on Wed- of Wellington." nesday; but that if these bills are paid be- The Duke of CLEVELAND said, that fore two o'clock on Friday, the parties he wished to suggest to the First Lord shall be subjected to no notarial charges of the Treasury the propriety of giving faarising from the delay.

cilities for the departure and return from Bill read 1a; to be printed; and to be the cathedral of St. Paul of those persons read 24 Tomorrow. *And Standing Or- who had been officially engaged in the proders Nos. 37 and 38, to be considered, in cession and solemnity. He thought it was order to their being dispensed with. but reasonable that if those persons were

not to return in procession, they should MESSAGE FROM THE QUEEN-FUNERAL have some priority of departure over those OF THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON.

who were present merely as spectators. The Queen's Message considered.

The EARL of DERBY said, he need The Earl of DERBY again rose and hardly assure the noble Duke that the said: I have now to ask your Lordships to question of the whole of the arrangements agree to an Address to Her Majesty in connected with the funeral had been a answer to Her Majesty's gracious Message matter of very anxious consideration on of Friday last, in reference to which I am the part of the Government, and of those sure that it is quite unnecessary for me to connected with the responsibility (for such say a single word, because I am convinced it was) of conducting a ceremony of such that it will meet with the universal concur- magnitude; and he had no doubt that pro

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rision had been made for the fitting ac- the Artillery and Engineers, and for the commodation of those persons who had to Admiralty and naval officers. The total join officially in the procession, and for fa- number of tickets for the different public cilitating as far as possible their return offices, including a certain number allotted after the ceremony had been performed; to the Lord Chamberlain, would be upbut he thought it would be convenient, if wards of 7,000. Then the Dean and their Lordships agreed to the appointment Chapter would have the remainder of the of a Committee, that that Committee tickets, out of which provision was to be should have in attendance before them on made for the city. Perhaps the hon, and the following day Garter King-at-Arms, gallant Gentleman was not aware that at from whom they might ascertain what were the time of Nelson's funeral the whole disthe precise arrangements made, and then tribution of tickets was under the care of the Committee or any noble Lord would the Dean and Chapter. It was very difhave an opportunity of suggesting any ferent, however, on the present occasion. alterations which they thought desirable; SIR JOHN SHELLEY said, he was of and if it was possible to make them within opinion that the right hon. Gentleman had the limited time which remained, he was not completely answered the question put sure that every person engaged would be to him : he would therefore beg to ask ready to pay the utmost deference to the whether it was true that a large number wishes of the House, and would have every of seats—something like 3,000—had been disposition to meet them.

reserved for the Dean and Chapter of St. On Question, agreed to.

Paul's ? House adjourned till To-morrow.

LORD JOHN MANNERS said, it was not true that 3,000 seats were reserved for

the Dean and Chapter, but 3,000 seats HOUSE OF COMMONS, had been reserved for them and the city of Monday, November 15, 1852.

London. He might take this opportunity

of stating that it was altogether untrue Minutes.] PUBLIC Bills.—-1° Bills of Exchange that the Dean and Chapter of St. Paul's

and Notes (Metropolis).
2o Bills of Exchange and Notes (Metropolis).

had made any application for 3,000 or Reported.- Bills of Exchange and Notes (Metro- 5,000 tickets-or, indeed, for any number polis).

whatever. Looking to what had been 36 Bills of Exchange and Notes (Metropolis). done on past occasions, the Government

had thought it right to offer the Dean and THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON'S FUNERAL Chapter à certain number of seats. The

-THE DEAN AND CHAPTER OF ST. Dean and Chapter had offered every posPAUL'S.

sible facility; and he took this public opSIR DE LACY EVANS said, he wish- portunity of saying that their conduct on ed, in consideration of the public anxiety this important and solemn occasion had to participate in the coming solemnity at been marked by the strongest desire to St. Paul's, to ask what number of places consult the public convenience and public had been allotted in the cathedral to the feeling. Dean and Chapter during the approaching solemnity?

THE CONVOCATION. MR. WALPOLE said, he believed that Mr. J. A. SMITH begged to ask the the mode in which the tickets for St. right hon. Secretary of the Home DepartPaul's had been allotted was this :—that ment whether any communication had been all those who attended the funeral, whe- made by the Archbishop of Canterbury to ther as deputations or otherwise, would the Government with reference to the prehave places allotted for them, as, for in- sent sitting of Convocation, and whether it stance, the Members of the House of was intended that it should continue to sit Lords and of the House of Commons, or be prorogued as usual ? Privy Councillors, Knights of the Bath, MR. WALPOLE said, that as far as the Trinity House, and so on. Then there he was aware, no communication such as would be accommodation for peeresses, the hon. Member referred to had been foreigners of distinction, ambassadors, and made to any Member of the Government; persons of that class. A certain number certainly none such had been made to him. of tickets would be allocated to the Horse In answer to the other branch of the quesGuards, for officers who had served under tion — namely, whether the Convocation the Duke of Wellington; the same pro- was to be allowed to continue sitting, or to vision had been made for the Ordnance, be prorogued as usual, he begged to state try?

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147 Bills of Exchange and {COMMONS} Notes (Metropolis) Bill. 148 that the usual course would be observed, and members of the commercial interest and this was intended from the beginning. as to the great inconvenience that would

arise from having bills of exchange payTHE COAL TRADE.

able on a day when the streets would be MR. LIDDELL said, he wished to ask filled with the dense crowds that might be the noble Under Secretary for Foreign expected to assemble on that occasion, and Affairs whether any communication had which would render it impossible for pertaken place between our Government and sons engaged in business to pass from the Government of France relative to the place to place. The Bill would provide equalisation of the duties levied on British that bills of exchange and notes falling coal when imported into the latter coun- due on the day of the funeral should be

payable on the day before. It was evident LORD STANLEY said, that the subject that this arrangement could not be injurito which the hon. Member's question re

ous to the holders of bills, while the only ferred was one on which the attention of the inconvenience which could result to payers Government had for some time past been would be, that in the event of their not fixed. The Government was fully aware being prepared to take up


acceptances of the great benefit which would accrue

on the day before their funeral, they would to British interests, and he believed to incur certain notarial charges on account French interests also, by the establishment of the noting of bills. To obviate this inof lower rates of duty or. British coal im- convenience, he proposed that the payers ported into France, than those at present of bills of exchange should not be liable to enforced; but, under all the circumstances notarial charges, provided their bills should of the case, and considering the nature of be paid by two o'clock on Friday, the day our commercial relations with France, it following the funeral. had been thought better not to enter into

Leave given. any negotiations on this subject separately.

Bill brought in the Standing Orders Communications relative to it had passed being suspended), was read a first and secbetween the two Governments, and from ond time, and committed, without observathose communications it appeared that the tion. Government of France was favourably dis

On the Question, that it be read a Third posed--as was also the Government of this Time, country--to making considerable modifica- MR. MANGLES said, he wished to tions in the present international

know whether there was any objection to cial system.

extending the provisions of the Bill to the

whole country? He had reason to know THE QUEEN'S ANSWER TO THE that a wish prevailed generally to have the ADDRESS.

day of the funeral observed with solemnity MR. FORESTER appeared at the bar, throughout the Kingdom. and stated that, having presented to Her

MR. GLYN begged to express the thanks Majesty the Address of the House in an

of the commercial public of Lendon to the swer to the Speech from the Throne, the right

hon. Gentleman for having introduced Queen had been pleased to make the fol- this Bill, and to the House for the disposilowing gracious reply :

tion which it showed to pass it. The

measure was rendered necessary, not so “ I have received with satisfaction your loyal much from a desire to make a holiday of and dutiful Address.

the day appointed for the funeral, as on “ I rely, with confidence, on your co-operation account of the absolute impossibility of with Me in My endeavour to promote the welfare transacting business on that occasion, of all classes of My subjects.”

Whether or not the rest of the country

should be placed on the same footing as BILLS OF EXCHANGE AND NOTES London on any future similar occasion, was (METROPOLIS) BILL.

a question which could not now be properly MR. WALPOLE rose, pursuant to no- considered; but he hoped that the right tice, to move for leave to bring in a Bill to hon. Gentleman would turn his attention make provision concerning bills of ex- to it. change and promissory notes payable in MR. J. L. RICARDO said, it would be the metropolis on the day appointed for the desirable to fix the payment of bills pefuneral of the Duke of Wellington. This remptorily for Wednesday; otherwise percourse was taken in consequence of the sons in the country- Manchester, for inrepresentations make to him by bankers stance--who bad payments to make on


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