Sivut kuvina

said, that Members need not stay in the many cases were never intended to be House after midnight, unless they pleased; passed, and in others were withdrawn at but some Members wished to discharge the close of the Session. Never had the their duty conscientiously, and therefore business been so well conducted as at the remained so long as the House was sitting close of last Session, when the House sat He was convinced that by the adoption of early. He hoped the Government would the Resolution, the business of the House give at least a trial to this Motion. would be facilitated; that it would be more SIR WILLIAM CLAY said, the object favourable to the health of Members, and of his hon. Friend in this Motion was really be more satisfactory to the country: within his own power, by moving an ad

MR. EWART, in seconding the Motion, journment after midnight. He thought said, he wished that the proposition was there were many occasions on which the one which would have the effect of assimi- House would feel the enormous importance lating more their business to the course of forwarding certain Bills & stage, althey adopted on Wednesdays. It was though it might be after midnight; and he stated, by a high authority, that more real therefore urged his hon. Friend not to press practical business was done by that House his Motion, but to leave it to the good on the Wednesdays than on any of the sense and good taste of hon. Members. other days of the week. He (Mr. Ewart) The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE. considered that after twelve o'clock at QUER said, the business of the House had night, those Members who were really very much increased of late years, and the anxious to do their duty might with great gist of this Motion was to reduce the time reason and propriety protest against pro- they could dedicate to the transaction of it. ceeding any further with the business of The proposition of the hon. Gentleman the Legislature. The practice of sitting (Mr. Brotherton) was really to establish a beyond twelve o'clock was most injurious restriction on debate; it was an extraordito the health of the Members generally, nary proposition in a free-trade age and a especially to that of the Ministers, who free-trade House of Commons. The hon. had so many other duties to attend to. Baronet who had last addressed them, had He had seen Ministers at such a time, reminded the hon. Gentleman of his frewhile endeavouring to push forward busi- quent exercise of the salutary privilege of ness, actually sinking under the weight of moving the adjournment of the House after their labour. He believed that the voice midnight, and no doubt on many occasions of the country was with his hon. Friend in it had contributed very much to public contaking this step. The voice of common venience; but there had been occasions sense was, at all events, in his favour. when hon. Gentlemen had made Motions Motion made, and Question put

that the debate should terminate, on which “ That in the present Session of Parliament no

an irresistible feeling had been shown on Business shall be proceeded with in this House both sides of the House that the terminaafter midnight; and that, at Twelve o'clock at tion of the debate under such circumstances night precisely, notwithstanding there may be Bu- would be extremely inexpedient to the siness under discussion, Mr. Speaker do, adjourn public welfare and public business. An the House without putting any Question.”

iron inflexible rule on the question would MR. W. WILLIAMS said, he thought be highly inconvenient. The subject had the practice of sitting so late at night was been very much considered in the Commitmost discreditable to that House. Bills of tee on Public Business. This restriction in the utmost importance were passed over debate was very much like the plan for night without the slightest consideration. limiting the duration of a speech, upon Oftentimes were they called upon after which point the Members of the Commitmidnight to dispose of thirty or forty Or- tee, formed from all parties of the House, ders of the Day, and the consequence was, came to an almost unanimous opinion, that that measures were hurried through in an if such a resolution were adopted, many imperfect manner, and had to be amended hon. Gentlemen whom the House did not in subsequent Sessions. It might be said wish to hear would certainly speak for the that the mass of public business could not hour, while the Gentlemen whom the House be otherwise got through; but every one wished to speak more than an hour, would acquainted with the mode of business in be prevented from doing so. As to the that House was acquainted with the fact sanitary part of the question alluded to, that the early part of the Session was con- and the reference made to the mode in sumed in discussion upon Bills that in which the business of the House was carried on during the latter part of the Sesto as a general rule, leaving extraordinary sion, he could only say that if a sanitary cases as exceptions, he believed they would consideration was alone to influence the soon find that they had got rid of one-half hon. Gentlemen who supported the propo of the obnoxious measures which were now sition, he did not think that they would being constantly brought before them. He persevere in it. It would be totally impos- (Mr. Hume) had been the innovator in the sible that the system of meeting at an early case of the Wednesday sittings, and he hour of the day could be generally acted thought he should have the testimony of upon. They were obliged to meet very the right hon. Gentleman in the Chair, as early every day during the last month of well as the great majority of the Members the previous Session for the purpose of of that House, in favour of that alteration. hurrying on the dissolution, and of dis- Adopt the Motion of his hon. Friend, and posing of the important business which it equally beneficial results would be the conFas absolutely essential to transact. They sequence. were consequently obliged very frequently LORD JOHN RUSSELL said, that, to sit for a period of fourteen hours in the however satisfactory the limitation of the day. Now, when hon. Members recollected sittings of that House might be to the the arduous duties of the Government, and public, and great as the convenience of the necessity of their attending to their such an arrangement might be to hon. offices, as well as in their places in that Members, yet he believed that they would House, they must admit the impossibility not improve the mode of carrying on the of their continuing for any length of time business of the House by merely adopting such a system of prolonged labour. He the Motion under discussion. The House doubted much whether they would be able must be aware there was not a legislative to undertake the duties of a Government assembly in the world which transacted if such a demand was to be made upon nearly half as much business as the House their time. He really thought that the of Commons did. With regard to the exquestion might be left to the good taste of ample of the Congress of the United the House; for he had seen many instances States, it should be remembered that the where rigid rules failed to accomplish that whole of the local business of the Union which, when left to the good taste and feel- was carried on by the several State Legising of hon. Members, was successfully latures, and, moreover, that as the whole achieved. It would be his duty, therefore, of the Administration formed no part of to oppose the Motion of the hon. Gentle- Congress, therefore there were not in that man, though he readily admitted it was in assembly those debates as to matters of troduced with the best and most commend- administration which took up so much of able intentions.

the time of this House. Considering then MR. HUME said, he should support the that they had this amount of business to Motion, for in the opinion of the public the do, he put it to them whether it might not mapper in which the business of that become necessary very much to alter all House was managed was not consistent their other rules in case they agreed to the with a due regard to the great interests present proposition. If that was to be the committed to its care. The right hon. case, let them have the whole scheme to Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exche- be proposed for a different mode of conquer had ridiculed the idea of hon. Mem- ducting the business of the House laid bers being compelled to make short before a Committee, and not begin by at speeches, but he (Mr. Hume) was not once adopting the Motion of the hon. quite sure that such a regulation would Member for Salford. With regard to renot have a most salutary effect. At all ducing the number of stages through which events, he had heard that the adoption of Bills had to pass in that House, let him a limitation of the sort, in an assembly in remind hon. Gentlemen that it was not another country, had, after some six or many years ago that, from the introduccight months' practice, been attended with tion of a Bill to its passing, there were not very satisfactory results. He thought his less than thirty-two questions put. Adopt bon. Friend (Mr. Brotherton) had acted the proposition now made, and it would perfectly right in thus appealing to the probably become necessary to still further good sense of the House, and asking them reduce the number of questions which were to adopt some mode by which their late still put—to read a Bill a first and second sittings might be abridged. If the plan time, and not go to a third reading at all, proposed by his hon. Friend were agreed or some change of that sort. It appeared VOL. CXXIII. (THIRD SERIES.)



to him (Lord J. Russell), that, however Fagan, W.

Miall, E. large might be the accumulation of Bills Ferguson, J.

Milligan, R.

Fitzgerald, Sir J. F. Mosfatt, G. at the end of the Session, yet they could

Gregson, s.

Murphy, F. S. not agree to a proposal of this kind with Greville, Col. F. Oliveira, B. out first considering all the consequences Hadfield, G.

Pellatt, A. which might result from it. He did not all, Sir B.

Pilkington, J. say that it was not possible to adopt some

llastie, A.

Pollard-Crquhart, w. Ileathcoat, J.

Sadleir, J. scheme by which the increased business of Henchy, D. O.C. Scobell, Capt. the House might be better transacted; but Hindley, C.

Scully, F. to accept the Motion of the hon. Member Humo, J.

Shee, W. for Salford under present circumstances Ingham, R.

Shelley, Sir J. V. would, in his opinion, be highly impru. Kennedy, T.

Keating, R.

Strickland, Sir G. ,

Thicknesse, R. A. dent.

Keogh, W.

Thomson, G. SIR HENRY WILLOUGHBY said, he King, hon. P.J. L. Walmsley, Sir J. would have supported the Motion if he Kirk, W.

Williams, W. could have done so with propriety, because Lowe, R. he should be glad to prevent that system M‘Mahon, P.

Brotherton, J. of midnight legislation which had some- Meagher, T.

Ewart, W. times been conducted with such evil effects

The Ilouse adjourned at Seven o'clock. in that House. But unfortunately the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Brotherton) had overshot the mark in not limiting his Resolution to II OUSE OF LORDS, the introduction of new business. If his hon. Friend would bring forward some

Tuesday, November 16, 1852. Motion by which no new business should Minutes.] Took the Oaths. Several Lords. be introduced after midnight, unless with

Sat First in Parliament - The Earl of Suffolk

and Berkshire, after the Death of his Father. the distinct leave of the House, such a Public Bills.-1“ Oaths in Chancery ; Law of proposition as that would come before Evidence and Procedure; County Courts them with effect; although even that might

Equitable Jurisdiction ; County Courts Further require some further consideration, as sug

Extension ; District Courts of Bankruptcy

Abolition. gested by the noble Lord opposite. Under

2a and 3a, and passcd, Bills of Exchange and existing circumstances, it was clear that if Notes (Metropolis). they adopted the Motion of the hon. Member for Salford, they would put it in the

MANNING THE NAVY. power of any party in the House to talk LORD BROUGHAM wished to put a any question out. That would be so fatal question to the noble Duke opposite, the to their deliberations that he could not First Lord of the Admiralty. He believed give his support to the Motion.

that towards the close of last Session a Mn. BROTIIERTON, in reply, said, he Commission or Committee was appointed must express his regret that he could not to inquire into the subject of manning the enlist the leading Members of the House Navy. He now wished to ask whether in support of his Motion: the discussion any steps had been taken by that Comhad only tended to show how much more mission or Committee, and whether any difficult it was to unlearn bad habits than report would be laid before Parliament ? to acquire good ones.

The subject was one of the most important Question put.

of those connected with that most imporThe House divided :--Ayes 64; Noes tant of all questions--the effective force of 260: Majority 196.

our Navy, and it was one upon which he

felt not an inordinate but a rational anxList of the Ayes.

iety. He hoped above all things that exAlcock, T. Cutler, C. S.

pense would be no obstacle to the imAnderson, Sir J. Carter, S.

provements which might be required in Barnes, T.

Challis, Ald. Barrow, W. II. Cheetham, J.

this dopartment. If there were a man in Boaumont, W. B. Cobbett, J. M.

the House who grudged the money necesBell, J. Coffin, W.

sary for this purpose, let not that man be Bellew, Capt. Crook, J.

listened to. Biggs, W. Duffy, C. G.


Duke, Sir J. Brocklehurst, J. Duncan, G.

said, that he had no difficulty whatever in Brown, II.

Dunlop, A. M. answering the question of his noble and Brown, W.

Evans, Sir De L. learned Friend. There was a Committee,

165 Bills of Exchange and {Nov. 16, 1852} Notes (Metropolis) Bill. 166 not a Commission, under the Board of Ad- I was in the hands of a British subject, who miralty now sitting, to inquire generally had to look to the foreign endorser in deinto the state of the manning of the Navy, fault of the English acceptor, or suppose and embracing everything connected with the English holder got payment from the the condition of our seamen. It had been foreign endorser, but that endorser had to sitting for several months, but no report look to a prior endorser, and that that rehad yet been made. The Committee was medy had to be enforced in a foreign court of a private nature, for the purpose of in--the effect of this Bill would be to alter forming the Admiralty, and was composed the nature of the contract which had been of many most distinguished officers, in made abroad between the parties to the whose judgment the greatest confidence bill. Now a bill of exchange drawn upon could be placed, and who would ever have a British subject, so far as concerned a prominently in view the good of the ser- British subject, enured according to the

He entirely agreed that the ques- British law. Although, however, the gention was one of great importance. eral principle of the law was that contracts

LORD BROUGHAM said, when he spoke depended on the law of the country where of the expense, he had in his eye the un- they were made, there was an exception. doubted fact of the wages being so much If a bill was drawn in one country upon better in other branches of the sea service the subject of another in that country, the than in our Navy; and, not only in our law of the country where the bill was to be own mercantile marine, but in the Ameri- paid was that which regulated the liability can service.

of the acceptor.

But in this case the

foreign endorser had engaged that the acBILLS OF EXCHANGE AND NOTES

ceptor should pay if the bill was presented (METROPOLIS) BILL.

according to the tenor of the bill; and it The Earl of DERBY then moved the was very doubtful if the foreign courts Second Reading of the Bill with respect to would enforce the contract as altered by an the presentation and payment of Bills fall. ex post facto law in this country. He ing due on Thursday next.

wished therefore to suggest that it would LORD CAMPBELL said, that, entirely behove all holders of bills due on the 18th, approving the Bill, he wished to make one whose bills were not paid on Wednesday, observation with a view of removing some to present them again on Friday. Geneapprehensions which had been expressed rally speaking, presentation was excused with respect to it. It had been suggested for a reasonable cause, and it had been that foreign acceptors and endorsers of bills held that, where there was a physical remight be released from their liabilities if straint on the party holding the bill —-such the bills due on the 18th were presented on as riots on the day when the bill was due any other than the day on which they origi- -nonpresentation on the day on which it nally became due. He apprehended, how- fell due was excused, provided the bill was ever, that it was a maxim of modern law that presented as soon as the physical restraint that which was done in each country must was withdrawn, and at the earliest practibe taken according to the law of that coun- cable moment. Now the effect of this try. Now, the 17th inst. would be the Bill was, if not to render the presentation day for the presentation of bills falling due of bills on the 18th instant unlawful on the in England on the 18th, according to the day on which they fell due, at least to law of this country; and he thought, there- show that the Legislature intended they fore that the acceptor and endorser would should not be presented on that day. That be as much liable if the bill were then might not be considered equivalent to a presented as if it were presented on the restraint by force by the foreign courts. It 18th.

was therefore important that holders of LORD TRURO said, he did not intend to foreign bills falling due on Thursday should offer any opposition to the Bill; but he was present them on Friday, as the earliest afraid that some inconvenience might arise. period possible after they fell due, in order There could be no doubt that the provi- to place themselves in the best possible sions of this Bill, by which bills falling due situation, on the 18th instant might be presented the LORD CAMPBELL said, that he must day previously, would be attended with no express bis confidence that the foreign enevil consequences in relation to British | dorsers and drawers were liable, according bills. Let them, however, take the case to what would be a good presentation by of bills drawn in foreign parts on British the law of England when that presentation subjects. Suppose that one of these bills had to be made. Now, as there were three days of grace there was no necessity for a ment propose to adopt for the further propresentation on the day when the bill fell secution of the objects which your Lorddue ; and, therefore, according to the law ships and the other House of Parliament of England, the presentation would now be had then in view. My Lords, the Acts good either on the 17th or 19th inst. which your Lordships passed last Session

LORD TRURO said, he referred only to with regard to the proceedings of the Court foreign contracts.

of Chancery were three in number. One Act LORD BROUGHAM said, that when two was for the abolition of the office of Master Judges gave opinions not exactly the same, in Chancery, and for introducing an altogehe hoped they would not consider them-ther new system of Chamber practice with selves bound by the opinions which they regard to matters which, up to that time, might there express, if the point was ever had been prosecuted by the Masters in brought before them judicially.

their own Chambers. The next Act was Bill read 2 (according to Order); Com- for the Improvement of the Jurisdiction in mittee negatived; and Standing Orders Equity; and the third Act was called the Nos. 37 and 38 considered (according to Suitors in Chancery Relief Act; and it Order), and dispensed with; and Bill read certainly did afford a great relief, by the 3*, and passed.

reduction of salaries and the abolition of

useless and unnecessary offices. Now, my FUNERAL OF THE DUKE OF Lords, it has been very much the practice WELLINGTON.

of Parliament, and it is a very easy mode LORD REDESDALE brought up the (whatever other difficulties it may involve) First Report of the Select Committee ap- of getting through the business of legislapointed to consider the best mode in which tion on such subjects, not to fill up in dethe House could assist at the ceremony of tail the outline of the Bills, but to leave the funeral of the late Duke of Wellington. | almost everything beyond their leading sub

The Clerk at the table then read the jects to be carried into execution by Orders Report :

to be made by the Court after the Bills "1. That the House be represented in the Pro- themselves have passed. This was the cession by the Lord Chancellor only.

course adopted by Parliament with respect “2. That the Lords attending the Ceremony in to the measures of last Session; and I can the Cathedral do appear in Mourning in the Places reserved for them.

assure your Lordships, therefore, that my "3. That arrangements be made for such Lords vacation has been principally occupied in a as desire to go to the Cathedral by Water to pro- species of legislation-sometimes with and ceed from the House to Paul's Wharf, at a Quarter sometimes without the assistance of my past Nine o'Clock.

learned Colleagues - in order to supply “4. That Tickets be ready for Delivery to all what was necessary to give full effect to Lords proposing to attend the Ceremony, 'till Five o'Clock To-morrow, at the Earl Marshal's Office, these Acts of Parliament. My Lords, No. 1, Parliament Street; such Tickets will be they are now in full operation; and I think required by all who go to the Cathedral, whether I can assure your Lordships, from what I by Land or Water. 5. That similar Tickets be also delivered to

have already seen, that they will fully efall Peers of Scotland and Ireland."

fect everything which the country and ParOrdered to be printed.

liament have had in view. And I think I Moved to resolve

may venture to assert that the celerity with

which matters will be decided in Chancery “ That this House be represented in the Pro- will be such as to make the old proverb cession by the Lord Chancellor only.”

entirely forgotten, and to lead to the introOn Question, agreed to.

duction of a new one.

I think there is no

Court in this country in which questions of IMPROVEMENTS IN THE ADMINISTRA- property will be decided with such rapidity TION OF THE LAW.

as there—and by rapidity I do not mean The LORD CHANCELLOR: My haste, which above all other things is to be Lords, I rise for the purpose of stating to deprecated in the administration of justice; your Lordships what steps have been taken I mean really good speed-speed so far as since we last met for the purpose of car- is consistent with the most mature deliberying into operation the Acts which were ration; and that such speed can now be passed last Session having reference to given to matters coming before the Court of the Court of Chancery, and various matters Chancery I hope to show your Lordships connected therewith. I rise also to state before I sit down, as well as that the exto your Lordships what are the further pense may yet be greatly diminished, so as measures which Her Majesty's Govern- I to render that Court, and every portion of

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