« EdellinenJatka »
MR. EWART seconded the Motion. MR. S. CARTER said, that when ParMotion made, and Question put- liament was called together by the Queen's " That the House be called over on Monday proclamation it was the duty of all MemDext the 22nd instant :—That such Members as bers to attend; and if, instead of being there shall not then attend be sent for in custody of the they were in the south of Ireland or the Serjeant at Arms."
south of France, or anywhere else, they MR. ROBERT PALMER did not know had no right to plead such absence from whether it was the intention of any hon. their duty as an argument against a proMember to oppose this Motion, So far as position of this nature. he was personally concerned, it was a The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEmatter of perfect indifference to him whe- QUER said, he perceived that Mr. Ersther the House was called over or not, kine May, the gentleman whom his hon, because he was not generally absent from Friend (Mr. Hume) had so very justly and his post on such important questions as properly praised, observed in his work upon that to be discussed on Tuesday next. The Law, Privileges, Proceedings, and But, as the hon. Member had stated that Usage of Parliament, “ If it be really inthe object of a call of the House was that tended to enforce the call, not less than a every Member should be present, he would week or ten days should intervene between beg to ask the hon. Member what power the order and the day named for the call." he had to insure the attendance of Mem- He thought it always expedient to take as bers except at the call of the House ? If great care as possible that when there was he could insure their attendance at the a call of the House there should be very debate, that would be something; but the ample time between the order and the day fact was, that he could neither ensure it named; but certainly, as a general rule, at the debate nor the division. There was he should be very sorry to oppose a Motion no such power; and half those who at- of this kind; and, as he gathered from the tended on Monday and answered to their feeling of the House that there was a denames might, if they chose, be absent on sire to make the Motion of the hon. MemTuesday. He merely threw this out that ber for Wolverhampton (Mr. C. Villiers) the hon. Member might see whether any more or less a Motion of confidence in the useful object could be gained by this Mo- Government, he should wish to see tion; because, if not, it would hardly be large an attendance upon the occasion as worth while putting people to the incon- possible; and certainly he should not himvenience which it would occasion.
self oppose the Motion of the hon. GentleMR. HUME said, the House had the man. power of enforcing the attendance of Mem- MR. SHEE said, he wished to state the bers on Monday, and if they attended on case of some hon. Friends of his, Members Monday and absented themselves on Tues- for counties in the south and west of Ireday, that would be a question between land, who he knew could not by possibility them and their constituencies.
be present. Having had no reason to MR. EWART said, that, although there suppose that any business would so soon was no security for the attendance of Mem- come before the House on which any great bers on Tuesday, yet there was a strong difference of opinion could arise, they had probability that if they attended on Mon- not yet attended the House; and it was day they would do so on Tuesday. There impossible that they could now arrive in must, moreover, in his opinion, have been time; that being so, he thought it would some good reason for the adoption of a be very hard upon them that they should rule by the House which had been so fre- be taken into the custody of the Serjeantquently acted upon.
at-Arms. Unless the House had the VISCOUNT BERNARD said, he wished power, therefore, to make exceptions in to point out to the hon. Member for Mon- such cases, the Motion would be calculated trose (Mr. Hume) the great inconvenience to inflict a great injustice. and injustice which he might occasion to LORD JOHN RUSSELL said, he thought some Members if he persevered in this it would have been much better if the hon. Motion. He was there prepared to vote; Member for Montrose, immediately after but if he had been at home in the south of the announcement of the hon. Member for Ireland it would have been utterly impossi- Wolverhampton that he intended to bring ble for him to arrive at the House in time forward his Motion, had given notice of after being made aware of the decision of his intention at an early day to make a the House.
Motion for a call of the House. [Mr.
HUME: I did so the very next day.] As Henley, rt. hon. J. W. Pilkington, J. it was, the time at present was certainly
Pinney, W. very short. However, according to the Hutchins, E. J.
Horsfall, T. B.
Pollard, U. W. practice which he had always seen adopted Jolliffe, Sir W. G. H.
Price, W. P.
Ricardo, O. when the House had been called over, if Keogh, W.
Rice, E. R. any valid excuse for absence were given, Kershaw, J.
Robartes, T. J. A. such, for instance, as being abroad, and King, hon. P. J. L. Russell, Lord J. unable to arrive in time, that had always Kirk, W.
Kinnaird, hon. A. F. Sawle, C. B. G. been taken by the House, upon the allega- Langton, W. H. G.
Shafto, R. D. tion of any hon. Member, to be sufficient. Laslett, W.
Shee, W. He presumed his hon. Friend intended to Lennox, Lord H. G. Smith, J. A. pursue the same course in the present in
Spooner, R. stance, and that on any Member not ap- Mackie, J.
Mackenzie, W. F. Stanley, Lord
Stansfield, W. R. C. pearing, the question would be asked whe- M‘Gregor, J.
Stapleton, J. ther there were any ground or excuse McTaggart, Sir J. Strickland, Sir G. for his absence. Having said thus much, Mangles, R. D. Sutton, J. H. M. he must say that he did not see any great Martin, J.
Manners, Lord J. Thompson, Ald.
Thomson, G. advantage in the Motion. Certainly it had Massey, W. N. Trollope, rt, hon, Sir J. been practised upon former occasions when Miall, E.
Turner, C. any questions of great importance were to Mitchell
, T. A. Tyler, Sir G. be discussed, and, as the Motion of the
Vernon, G. E. H. hon. Member for Wolverhampton was one Milner, W. M. E.
Villiers, hon. C. P.
Vivian, H. H. of that nature, it was unquestionably of Morgan, C. R. Walcott, Adm. great importance that it should be known Mostyn, hon. E. M. L. Walmsley, Sir J. whether they had adopted Free Trade and Mulgrave, Earl of Walpole, rt. hon. S. II. renounced Protection, or had returned to Naas, Lord
Murphy, F. S.
Warner, E. Protection and renounced Free Trade: he Napier, rt. hon. J.
Whatman, J. thought then, in this instance, the practice Newport, Visct. Whitbread, S. of former years might very well be fol- O'Brien, P.
Wickham, II. W. lowed.
Wilkinson, W. A. The House divided :-Ayes 147; Noes Paget, Lord G.
Williams, W. 42: Majority 5.
Pellatt, A. Anderson, Sir J.
Drumlanrig, Visct. Phillimore, J. G. Ilume, J. Baines, rt, hon, M. T. Duncan, G.
Ewart, W. Ball, J.
List of the Noes.
Archdall, Capt. M. Cholmondeley, Lord H.
Clinton, Lord C. P. Bellew, Capt. Fagan, W. Baillie, H. J.
Clinton, Lord R. Berkeley, hon. C. F. Ferguson, Col.
Cobbold, J. C. Berkeley, C. L. G. Ferguson, J.
Baldock, E. H.
Coles, H, B. Biggs, W.
Fitzgerald, W. R. S. Banks, rt. hon, G.
Compton, H, C.
Cotton, hon. W. H, S.
Davies, D. A, S.
Beaumont, W. B. Divett, E.
Du Cane, C.
Duckworth, Sir J. T. B.
Goderich, Visct. Boldero, H. G.
Egerton, E. C.
Euston, Earl of
Farnham, E. B.
Ferguson, Sir R.
Follett, B, S.
Forester, rt, hon. Col. Craufurd, E. H. J. Hamilton, G. A. Butt, I.
Franklyn, G. W.
Campbell, Sir A. I. Fraser, Sir W. A.
Carnac, Sir J. R. Gaskell, J. M.
Glyn, G. C.
Charteris, hon. F. Greaves, E.
Mundy, W. Hale, R. B.
respecting which he had not had a preMurrough, J. P.
vious opportunity of giving an explanation. Hall, Col.
North, Col. Halsey, T. P. Ossulston, Lord
He begged to be permitted to state how Hamilton, Lord C. Packe, C. W.
the case stood with respect to the proHarcourt, G. G.
Pakenham, Capt. posed charter which was sought to be Hardinge, hon. C, S. Parker, R. T.
obtained for the Crystal Palace, because Hawkins, W. W. Pcacocke, G. M. W.
misapprehensions had arisen concerning Hayes, Sir E.
Percy, bon. J. W.
it which had taken a great hold on the Herbert, H. A. Portal, M,
public mind, and he should be gratificd if Hudson, G. Pugh, D.
the explanation he could give would reHughes, W. B. Robertson, P. F.
lieve any of the parties from their appreJohnstone, hon. H. B. Rolt, P. Jones, Capt. Russell, F. W.
hensions, and relieve him from the vast Kendall, N. Scott, hon. F.
number of memorials which were preKennedy, T.
Seymer, H. K. sented to him almost every day of his life. King, J. K. Sibthorp, Col.
When first it was determined to form the Knight, F. W.
Smijth, Sir W. Knightley, R.
Crystal Palace Company, it was a great Sm th, Sir F. Knox, hon. W. S. Smith, W. M.
object with the Directors to have a charter Lacon, Sir E. Smollett, A.
of incorporation—not to give them any Lascelles, hon, E. Stanhope, J. B.
powers which the law did not give them Legh, G. C. Stirling, W.
before, but for the purpose of securing to Lennox, Lord A. F. Swift, R. Leslie, C. P. Taylor, Col.
the shareholders the advantage of a limited Liddell, H. G.
Thicknesse, R. A. liability, which would afford great facilities Loraine, Lord Tollemache, J.
for carrying into effect the objects they Lucas, F. Vance, J.
contemplated ; and a memorial was preLygon, hon. Gen. Vansittart, G. H.
sented to the Government accordingly. Macartney, G.
Verner, Sir W.
His right hon. Friend the President of
the Board of Trade (Mr. Henley) was not Maddock, Sir T. II. Whitmore, H.
in this country at the time the Company Malins, R. Wigram, L. T.
made their application ; but he (the Earl Mandeville, Visct. Willoughby, Sir H. Meagher, T. Wise, J. A.
of Derby) saw the Directors of the ComMeux, Sir H.
Wyndham, W. pany; and when they had stated their Michell, w.
Wynn, H. W. W. views to him, he stated to them that he Miller, T. J. Yorke, hon. E.T.
thought the most convenient course they Mills, A.
Young, Sir J. Montgomery, H. L.
could pursue was to put down in the form Montgomery, Sir G.
of a draught Charter the objects they had Moore, R. S. Newdegate, C. N.
in view, and the restrictions to which they Morgan, o. Vyse, R. H.
proposed to submit, in regard to the openThe House adjourned at a quarter after ing of the building on the Sunday, in order Seven o'clock till Monday next.
ment. He had since been in communication with his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department
(Mr. Walpole), and the parties were inHOUSE OF LORDS, formed that they were to consider the conMonday, November 22, 1852.
versation that had taken place as merely
an explanation of the views of the GovernMINUTES.] Sat First in Parliament.—The Duke ment with regard to restrictions as to the
of Brandon, after the Death of his Father. opening on Sundays; but as to the issuing Took the Oaths.-Several Lords.
of any charter at all, that was a subject
for consideration on the part of the proper THE EXHIBITION (SYDENIIAM). authorities. They had proceeded on the LORD PANMURE having presented a assumption that there was nothing in the petition from the Free Synod of Aberdeen law which prevented the opening of the against the opening of the Exhibition Palace on Sundays, and thought they had (Sydenham) on any part of the Lord's only to consider what clauses it would be Day,
necessary to introduce on granting the The EARL of DERBY said, he was charter. He had no hesitation in saying, glad to have the opportunity of calling for his own part, that (subject to the retheir Lordships' attention to the subject strictions which the Company had declared to which the petition had reference, and its willingness to submit to), the opening
of the Crystal Palace on the Sunday, far inserted in the charter could render that from being a desecration of the Sabbath, legal which was declared illegal by law; would be a great benefit to the people of and if such were the law, it could only be this overcrowded metropolis, by enabling altered by the authority of Parliament, and them to avail themselves on the Sunday they would not attempt to mislead the pubafternoon of the innocent recreation and lic opinion by giving a sanction which they amusement provided for them by the could not really give. The alteration could building and the beautiful grounds at- only be made with the consent of Parliatached to it. If this scheme had involved ment; and he hoped that he might be peran exhibition of articles of manufactures, mitted to say, on the part of Ministers, machinery, and commerce, within the walls, that if the payment for admission into the and the attendance of the exhibitors to ex- Crystal Palace on the Sunday were found plain their inventions in arts, science, and to be contrary to the law, they would be manufactures, or if it had required the pre- the last persons to ask for the enactment sence of a numerous body of attendants of such a provision as would legalise it, howto guard and protect them on the Sunday, ever advantageous they might think it for he might have taken a very different view the health, comfort, and morality of the of the subject. But the representatives of population. When the clause to which he the Company had stated to him that their had referred was proposed to be introduced object was to close on the Sunday all the into the charter, it was looked upon by the exhibition of machinery, manufactures, and Government, and by the promoters of the commerce, and merely to throw open their project, as a restrictive clause; but if the beautiful park, garden, and conservatory, opening of the Crystal Palace should be setting aside for that purpose certain hours, illegal_a point which was then under the which would not interfere with the attend consideration of the law officers of the ance of the population of London at Divine Crown-no clause authorising it would be Service in the morning. It was further inserted in the charter. In that case, the intimated to him by the Directors that it clause must be inserted, not by the consent was their intention to run trains to the of Her Majesty's Ministers, but by the aubuilding itself, to issue return tickets, and thority of Parliament. to carry their visitors direct from the lo- The MARQUESS of CLANRICARDE cality to London ; they would thus be said, he had listened a few nights previous prevented from being scattered over the with great gratification to the speech of the vicinity, and from being accumulated in noble and learned Lord on the woolsack, in the public-houses in the evening. It was which he referred to four or five subjects of also stated to him that it was the intention legal reform; but he was disappointed at of the Directors to prohibit the sale of finding no mention whatever of an ameliospirituous liquors in the precincts of the ration or amendment of the law of partbuilding and in the building itself. Sub- nership. Under the present state of the ject to those restrictions, and to the risk of law it was impossible for persons who had violating them, he still continued to be of moderate means to associate their capital opinion, notwithstanding the remonstrances together, whereby their earnings would fructhat had been addressed to him, that, far tify in a laudable manner. Why should they from desecrating the Sabbath, the opening not be permitted to associate together under of the Crystal Palace on the Sunday would the limited liability which the directors of be useful to the population in giving them the Crystal Palace Company were now so fresh air and amusement, and in promot- anxious to obtain ? The consequence of ing moral and social improvement among the present state of the law was that they the working classes. Since these arrange- had to go to the Board of Trade for a ments had been spoken of, a question had charter, and the granting of that charter arisen as to whether the opening of the was regulated by no fixed rule whatever. Crystal Palace could not be prohibited That was a great grievance, because it under the existing law, and whether under gave to large capitalists the power to enter a certain statute-passed for a very dif- into speculations such as this; whereas a ferent purpose, and enacting that the large number of small capitalists who were payment of money for admission into inclined to invest their money in such an any place of amusement on a Sunday undertaking were unable to do so. He should be deemed an illegal offence—it would suggest to those who were much could be opened at all. If that should be more competent to deal with the subject the case, he need not say that no clause then he was, that it would be a most use
ful and acceptable reform, if a law of part of the present year has been accompanied nership were passed something like that in with considerable excitement, and has led operation in France, or like that in force in to long discussion; but the proceedings of Ireland, which had been found to work Convocation have
year no further most beneficially in that country.
than they have gone in all the preceding LORD CAMPBELL rose to express the years—that is, they moved and voted an high satisfaction with which he had heard Address to the Crown at the commencethe statement of the noble Earl at the ment of the Session. It is true that the head of Her Majesty's Government, and discussion upon that Address to the Crown he trusted that statement would be satis
--previous to which it would not have been factory to the great majority of the coun- decorous or proper that any power over try. Their Lordships would recollect that Convocation should be exercised-lasted for he had been no friend originally to the a period of three days; but though it lasted Crystal Palace in Hyde Park, but since for three days, this is not the first occasion it was transferred to Sydenham he was the on which there has been a discussion, or on warm friend of it, as conducive, not only which an Amendment has been moved in to the recreation of the people, but to the Comvocation. In the year 1847 the discause of morality and religion. Under the cussion lasted through the whole of one restrictions which the noble Earl had sta- day, and an Amendment was moved, prayted, he believed the opening of it on the ing the Crown to revive the active powers afternoon of Sundays, would not only be a of Convocation. The power of proroguing recreation, but of the greatest advantage. Convocation, undoubtedly in the last resort, There was an Act of Parliament in force, rests with the Crown; but I believe there which prevented the taking money for ad- has been no instance in which that power mission into any place of public amuse- has been exercised by the Crown, at least ment or recreation on a Sunday; but he for many years, the power being usually trusted that Parliament would relax that exercised by his Grace the Archbishop of law in favour of the Crystal Palace Com- Canterbury, either acting (for that is a pany, in consideration of the restrictions doubtful point) upon his own authority, or mentioned by the noble Earl opposite, and with the advice of the other bishops, conassented to by the Company.
sensu fratrum. On the present occasion I Petition read, and ordered to lie on the understand that the usual and ordinary table.
course has been adopted, and that the poble
Earl is mistaken in speaking of the ad. MEETING OF CONVOCATION. journment of Convocation, for I am inThe Earl of SHAFTESBURY wished formed that the usual course has been purto put a question to the noble Earl opposite sued, not of adjourning, but of proroguing on a subject of great interest. He alluded Convocation in the usual form. The Adto the sittings and to the proceedings of dress having been voted to the Crown, the Convocation. Many petitions had been, or Convocation has been prorogued by the would be, presented on the subject. He Archbishop to a period not far from being wished to know what were the intentions coincident with the time of the meeting of of the Government with respect to Convo- both Houses of Parliament after the recation? It now stood adjourned to the cess. There is nothing unusual in the 16th of February; he wished to know whe- prorogation of Convocation to a distant ther it would then be allowed to assemble day for the purpose of receiving the anagain and proceed to business? He also swer of the Crown to its Address—it is not wished to know whether, during that in- usual to receive an immediate answer terval, the Committee appointed by the there is always a prorogation for the purLower House of Convocation would be per- pose of receiving the answer. I have not mitted to sit?
had the opportunity, since my noble Friend The EARL of DERBY : As far as Her gave notice of asking the question, of comMajesty's Government are concerned there municating with his Grace the Archbishop is no intention of making any deviation of Canterbury; but I have no reason to from the customary and ordinary course suppose that when Convocation meets again that for many years has been pursued with he will depart from the practice that has respect to Convocation ; nor do I under- hitherto universally prevailed, nor do I apstand that there has been any deviation from prehend that he will do more than lay bethe ordinary practice, although undoubted- fore Convocation the answer to the Adly the meeting of Convocation in the course dress, and then in the usual form prorogue