the great object which he had in view was to secure practically a continuance of possession to the improving tenant; and in answer to a question put to him, that he was of opinion the adjustment of rent was a thing which could not be done by any compulsory enactment; and when he found the hon. Member for the county of Cork, in a pamphlet he wrote on the land question, stating that he looked on compulsory legislation on such a subject as a delusion of a most mischievous description, he quite agreed with them, believing, as he did, that these were cases in which the Legislature could not advantageously interfere. He had done as much as could be done, so far as he could see, to protect and secure the tenant; but he could not approve of a law to enable the tenant to compel compensation from the landlord by surrendering his farm when he pleased. He had endeavoured to encourage the tenant to continue his improvements to the end of his term, and not, as was too often the case, carry them on for a short time and then withdraw; and it would be seen that the regulations for the outgoing tenant had been framed with that view. The law of emblements was rendered a little more liberal than it was made in the law of 1851, and some alterations had also been made in respect to fixtures. The remaining parts of the Bill referred to the procedure in civil-bill courts, and to the conditions under which compensation for the improvements of tenants from year to year was to be enforced. The quantity of details unavoidably noticed fell far short of the entire of the provisions actually embodied in these Bills, which he now must leave for future discussion in Committee.

which the property was under the value of 107. But he could see no principle upon which a property worth 20. should be placed in a worse condition than a property of 101. The fact showed that in the opinion of the Legislature it was quite possible to ascertain when and what improvements had been made, and it further showed that the law was necessary for the purpose of justice, and was founded upon grounds of policy. In his humble judgment, the tenant was entitled to compensation (if ejected on the title) for the period not yet expired, and he had accordingly introduced provisions to carry out that principle, guarded so as fully to secure the rights of both parties. Another case had been forcibly put with respect to improvements made at a time when prices were so high that the tenant was enabled to pay a higher rent; and it was said that the tenant should have the power of surrendering his farm whenever he pleased, and of then forcing compensation from the landlord for the unexpired period of his tenure; but, with every desire to favour the honest and industrious occupier, he must say he could not reconcile such a demand with the great principle of the rights of property on which all civilised society must ultimately rest. It seemed to him that any attempt to carry out this proposal by legislative enactment, which he could not see his way at all clearly to do, must interfere with the adjustment of rent between landlord and tenant which it was so desirable to leave to mutual contract. It was true that in the working out of these relations there were evils to be found which were inseparable from all general systems, but they were evils which he did not think the Legislature could rectify by Such, then, was the outline of the code stepping in further between the owners and which he proposed for the adoption of the occupiers of the land. If, however, he had House, and the acceptance of such profailed in providing a remedy for any par-prietors and tenants in Ireland as might ticular evil which might be removed, and not desire to sacrifice any of those rights if any hon. Member thought he had not of property which formed the basis of civil done full justice in any special case, he society. Subject to these rights, and so would be delighted to give his most candid far as their just limits would allow, he had and careful consideration to any clause that endeavoured to meet the exigencies of Iremight be framed to remove these imper-land in a liberal and generous spirit. In fections, and to recommend it to the preparing this code, and in considering House, should he think it deserving of every suggestion submitted to him, he support. If he thought he could not in- knew he had added many an hour of toil troduce such clauses, of course those hon. to a life of no ordinary labour. Every Gentlemen who suggested and framed them suggestion which might hereafter be of would be at liberty to lay their proposi- fered, from whatever quarter it might tions before the House. But when he come, would be accepted and considered in found Mr. Sharman Crawford declaring the same spirit in which these measures before the Devon Commission, stating that had been submitted to the House.

He

knew the recompense too often bestowed attention to the measures submitted to on those who preferred the moderate and them, and that the right hon. and learned equitable adjustment of extreme opinions Gentleman would be assisted and sustained and conflicting claims to the gratification by all sides of the House in the moderate of narrow prejudices, but who considered and judicious course he had proposed. the common weal and the interests of all MR. SERGEANT SHEE said, that he had as paramount to the selfish demands of listened with the greatest attention to the any class or party. The man who was very able speech of the right hon. and learnclamorous about rights and negligent of ed Gentleman the Attorney General for Ireduties would depreciate his labours; the land, and must tell him that he was very grinding middleman would dislike, and the much mistaken, and would do great injusfactious or fraudulent tenant would heartily tice, if he thought that the Members who condemn them-for all this he was quite had been returned by Irish constituencies prepared. Enough for him, if by this code to that House, would, as he had insinuated, he had provided a freer course for industry, seek to obtain popularity in Ireland by any and had raised up an obstacle to injustice. attack upon the rights of property. He If he should afford the means of developing (Sergt. Shee), for one, had undertaken to call effectively the resources of a land which the attention of the House to a Bill for the God had blessed but man had blighted, the regulation of the relations subsisting berecompense would be to him an exceeding tween landlord and tenant in Ireland, but great reward. They might ask him, indeed, he could never have been induced to take whether he hoped that by any measure of that step if he had been of opinion that legislation they could bring peace and pros- there was one word in the Bill which tendperity to Ireland? And he should answer, ed to touch or trench in the slightest dethat they could not, except in so far, in-gree on the just rights of property. He deed, as their legislation might be a por- was disposed to give to all the suggestions tion of that appointed agency which He contained in the speech of the right hon. could bless whose gracious touch could and learned Attorney General for Iremake the very act of ministering to the land a most candid consideration, and wants of the multitude the occasion and he thought that there was much in the the means of increase and abundance. The measures the right hon. and learned Genvoice of mercy had resuscitated Ireland-tleman had introduced worthy of being fathe flush and flow of returning life reanimated her frame; but still was she bound in the grave-clothes in which severe policy and sore affliction had enwrapped her loose her and let her go.

Motion made and Question proposed

"That leave be given to bring in a Bill to facilitate the improvement of Landed Property in Ireland by Owners of Settled Estates."

MR. CONOLLY said, he was sure that the House generally must participate in the pleasure which he himself felt at hearing such a speech as that which they had been fortunate enough to have addressed to them by the right hon. and learned Attorney General for Ireland, and which he admired not only for its tone and temper, but because it was ennobled by the highest sentiments of public policy. Great as was his respect for the right hon. and learned Gentleman, and great as was his wish to see the question brought before the House conducted to a proper conclusion, he had no idea that it would have been put by him on so clear and on such an eminently working footing. He did hope, therefore, that the House had given and would give every

vourably entertained, and he was resolved to avow his approval of that which might appear to him worthy of the approbation and adoption of the House. As to three of the Bills which had been laid before the House, however he might be inclined to differ with the right hon. and learned Gentleman on some of their details, he believed that there was much in every one of those three Bills deserving of the attention and the adoption. of the Legislature; and though he could not hope to be able, by any assistance he could give to the right hon. and learned Gentleman, who was so well acquainted with the details of the complicated law in Ireland, to lighten his labours, he could assure him it would not be from any want of hearty good will on his (Sergt. Shee's) part that he was not successful, and that he would not, from any party or factious motive, hesitate to do him full and entire justice on a question which ought not to be a question of party at all. Having said thus much, he felt bound frankly to state that the last Bill which the right hon. and learned Gentleman had brought forward, was not calculated in his (Sergt. Shee's) opinion to give the slightest satisfaction in

Ireland. The first part of that Bill which | tion by and by; but the right hon. and related to prospective improvements was learned Gentleman had stated most fairly but a second edition of the Bill introduced and candidly that he was perfectly ready by Lord Stanley in the House of Lords, in to listen to suggestions on all matters of 1845; and of the two Bills of Lord Lincoln detail, and to submit his measures to the and Sir William Somerville. Of all these judgment of those persons on both sides measures the one which gave most dissa- of the House who were best informed upon tisfaction in Ireland was the Bill which had the questions under discussion. He should been brought forward by the present Prime not have stood up, therefore, had it not Minister; and he (Sergt. Shee) felt assured been for some observations of his hon. and that the proposition of the right hon. and learned Friend who had just sat down. learned Gentleman, which seemed to be The hon. and learned Gentleman said he but a renewal of that measure, would be was not the man to do anything to trench received with the same dissatisfaction. As on the rights of property. He confessed to that part of the Bill which related to he was glad to hear that statement, bewhat the right hon. and learned Gentle- cause he thought the hon. and learned man called retrospective compensation, he Gentleman had charge of the original felt convinced that that also was unlikely Bill of Mr. Sharman Crawford, in which to be received with favour by the Irish were two clauses introduced by the hon. people. He would not enter into a length- and learned Gentleman (Sergt. Shee) himened discussion on that point, because he self, which, in his humble judgment, hoped to have on an early day an opportu- were utterly incompatible with the free nity of addressing the House upon the sub-rights of property. He thought that any ject. He was of opinion that the Bill of the right hon. and learned Gentleman was defective in another point. It made no provision for the security of the vast amount of property accumulated in the north of Ireland. It left it altogether unprotected. Nay, more; it did worse, because, when the House had been called upon to consider a Tenant Right Bill, and when the right hon. and learned Attorney General for Ireland had brought the result of his consideration of the subject under the attention of the House, and yet made no provision for the Tenant Right in Ulster, he, in fact, said it was a right which ought not to be recognised, and which the landlords would be justified in disregarding. He (Sergt. Shee) would not discuss the various details of the Bill until it was laid before the House, but he felt assured that, so far from giving satisfaction, it would create dismay and consternation, if it did not cause disturbance, in what had hitherto been the most prosperous part of Ireland.

MR. GEORGE said, he rose with extreme reluctance to address the House for the first time. He felt that the right hon. and learned Attorney General for Ireland had brought to the consideration of that all-important subject all that legal skill, extreme industry, and right feeling could supply to settle the conflicting claims of two classes whose interests ought to be identical. He did not mean to pledge himself to all the details of those measures, as there might be questions connected with agricultural matters worthy of considera

attempt to force perpetuity of tenure, or to fix a compulsory value of rents, was utterly subversive of all the rights of property; and, therefore, if he was to draw a conclusion from the hon. and learned Gentleman's statement, it would be that he (Sergt. Shee) had determined to abandon those clauses to which he alluded in the Tenant Right Bill. Sure he was that no Parliament-not composed of landlords merely, but of fair, honest, honourable men-could ever agree to them. This was not the time for entering into details, but he should have thought himself wanting in his duty to his constituents if he had not taken this the earliest opportunity of stating his opinion that the measures now introduced would give general satisfaction in Ireland. He hoped no attempt would be made to add to the Bills clauses which would destroy, in all probability, their good effect, and mar the success of this latest effort to give peace and contentment to that country.

MR. KIRK said, he wished to make a few observations on the importance of these Bills to Ireland, and to state that this question of landlord and tenant involved the internal peace and tranquillity of that country. It had been said that Ireland was the chief difficulty of every English Ministry. And why? Because its annals were annals of agrarian crime, arising out of disagreements between landlord and tenant. was, therefore, most desirable for all parties to unite to promote the good of Ireland, to promote her peace and prosperity, grounded as that prosperity must ever be

It

proposition to meet this grievous and unfortunate state of things. As a merchant and a free-trader, he should be ashamed of himself to argue for a compulsory valuation of rents; but he thought these measures should include a clause providing, where the landlord and tenant could not between themselves agree upon the price of the land, that then permission should be given to the tenant to resign his holding to the landlord, and get from him the value of the improvements he had made upon it, subject to proper restrictions. This would completely destroy all cause of agrarian crime. He wished the right hon. and learned Gentleman would turn his attention to this point, and exert himself to produce security for person and property in Ireland; and he trusted and hoped that the admirable observations made by Her Majesty at the close of Her Most Gracious Speech would be duly attended to, and that a just and generous policy towards that country would be the governing rule of the Administration.

on her internal peace. He felt, and must acknowledge, a deep obligation to the right hon. and learned Gentleman for the code of laws he had just proposed, as well as for the manner, spirit, tone, and temper with which he had introduced them; and he, for one, should never offer the slightest degree of factious opposition to the measures now under discussion, but he must say that one important element, the settlement of the rent, had been left out. The right hon. and learned Attorney General for Ireland had alluded, at the conclusion of his address, to that district of Ireland which had been the scene of agrarian outrage. When, in 1846, the Legislature repealed the Corn Laws, and when concurrently it pleased God to bring on Ireland the potato blight, it was impossible that the rents previously contracted for could be paid. For a long time the occupiers in Ireland-in the north of Ireland more particularly-had made all improvements, not merely on their farms, but public roads and buildings. There was not a road or a bridge, a courthouse, gaol, or bridewell, but what had been constructed by the occupiers of the soil, the landlords not contributing a shilling unless when occupiers. That time they had high prices, caused latterly by the operation of the Corn Laws, and previously by the operation of the wars of the French Revolution. Prior to 1845, the usual course for settling their claim for improvements was for the tenant, when leaving, to agree with another person for a certain sum of money as compensation for the improvements, then to take this new tenant to the landlord, and satisfy him of his sufficiency. Thus the sale was completed, and the outgoing tenant compensated; the landlord had his property in the soil; the tenant his in the improvements. This system had worked very well, but when the potato blight and the Corn Law repeal came, it was impos-versally the work of the tenants. For sible for occupiers to pay their rents. Since that there had been a system of combination and conspiracy extending itself over a great portion of the most peaceable part of Ireland, and stretching on, as he believed, even into England. When the landlord refused to lower the rent, the dread expedient was resorted to of shooting the agent. What had not been granted to remonstrance was conceded to terror, and this in the surrounding properties as well as in those in which such extremities had been proceeded to. The rents were lowered. Now, in none of these Bills did he see any

MR. F. GREVILLE said, he thought the House and the country were much indebted to the right hon. and learned Gentleman the Attorney General for Ireland, for the admirable spirit in which he had introduced those measures, as well as for many valuable provisions which they contained. But, at the same time, he (Mr. Greville) agreed with the hon. and learned Member for Kilkenny (Sergt. Shee), that the last Bill which had been introduced by the right hon. and learned Gentleman would not give satisfaction to the tenantry in Ireland. It should be remembered that there could be no comparison made between the position of the tenant class in Ireland and in this country. In England the improvements in land were almost universally carried out at the expense of the landlords, while in Ireland they were almost as uni

these improvements the Irish tenantry naturally looked for compensation when they were ejected from their holdings; and their claim in that respect, ought, he thought, to be acknowledged by Parliament. Emigration from Ireland was continuing upon as large a scale as ever, and the only hope we had of preserving the population-that population of which we might yet stand in need, and which had always stood faithful to this country in times of danger—was to do that which would secure the tenant in his application of capital to the land, and retain him at home.

possible to embody it in any system of legislation without dealing separately with nearly every farm. He believed, too, that any legislation which would have for its ob

tem would deprive the tenantry in the north of Ireland of the advantages which they at present derived from that system, and that by any effort to settle the question by legal enactment they would be losers to an enormous amount. He would not detain the House any longer. He had witnessed with great satisfaction the kind and liberal spirit in which the proposals of his right hon. and learned Friend had been received, even by those Gentlemen who differed from him; and he was sure that in future discussions on the Bill they would all approach the question with a sincere and honest wish to provide to the utmost of their power for the improvement of the condition of the people of Ireland.

Leave given to bring in the four Bills, which were each read Ïo.

House adjourned at half after Nine o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

LORD NAAS said, he did not rise for the purpose of prolonging a useless discussion upon points of detail, which it would, at that moment, be impossible for them to consider in an efficient or satisfactory man-ject the legalisation of the tenant-right sysner. But he wished to take that opportunity of correcting a mis-statement which had fallen from the hon. and learned Member for Kilkenny (Sergt. Shee), when he had said that the fourth of these Bills-namely, that for giving compensation to tenants in Ireland-was similar to the Bill upon the same subject which had been introduced by Lord Stanley, in the House of Lords, in the year 1845. He (Lord Naas) affirmed, on the contrary, that there was no similarity whatever between the two Bills, with the single exception that they had both been framed for the same object. Their details were entirely different, and the machinery by which their end was to be attained was equally dissimilar. The machinery of Lord Stanley's Bill was of a very complicated character, and such as it would be very difficult to work out. It proposed that Commissioners and Assistant Commissioners should be appointed for the purpose of determining whether the improvements contemplated by the tenant should be considered as improvements or not, and it would render the tenant liable to ruinous litigation before he could begin any improvement. There was nothing of that kind in the present Bill. There were no preliminaries whatever, and it would be perfectly competent to the tenant to commence his improvements at once; and any litigation which arose at all must arise when the landlord proposed to eject the tenant, at the end of his tenancy. The improvements could thus take place within a week after the first steps were taken by the tenant. That created a very important difference between the two measures. He was not surprised to learn that hon. Gentlemen opposite expected to find in the Bill an attempt to legalise the tenantright of Ulster. He was perfectly prepared for that; but he could not sit down without expressing his opinion-an opinion entertained, he believed, by almost every Gentleman who had calmly considered that question, and was acquainted with the circumstances of the north of Ireland, that it would be simply impossible to import into an Act of Parliament the tenant-right custom as it existed in Ulster. That custom varied on almost every estate. It was founded on ancient usages, which differed in different parishes; and it would be im

Tuesday, November 23, 1852.

MINUTES.]

Took the Oaths.-The Lord Dunsandle and Clanconal.

Their Lordships met; and having gone through the business on the paper, House adjourned to Thursday next.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Tuesday, November 23, 1852. MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILL.-1° West India Colo

nies, &c., Loans Act Amendment.

THE CONSTABLESHIP OF THE TOWER.

MR. VERNON SMITH said, he wished to ask a question of the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War relating to the appointment of Constable of the Tower. The right hon. Gentleman was probably aware that the Committee on the Army Estimates refrained from entering into the consideration of the Tower garrison, because they were informed that at the expiration of the patent all the offices would undergo revision. That was certainly stated by Mr. Fox Maule, now Lord Panmure. A vacancy had now unfortunately taken place through the death of the Duke of Wellington; and he perceived that Lord Combermere had since been appointed Constable