List of the NOES.

"That it is the opinion of this House, that this Policy, firmly maintained and prudently extended, will, without inflicting injury on any important Interest, best enable the Industry of the Country to bear its burthens, and will thereby most surely promote the welfare and contentment of the People."

"That this House will be ready to take into

consideration any measures, consistent with these principles, which, in pursuance of Her Majesty's gracious Speech and Recommendation, may be laid before it."

accordingly in 1847 they first sent pensioners out to New Zealand, where they had proved themselves extremely useful in the then disturbed state of that colony.

The House adjourned at Two o'clock till Those men had proved themselves efficient, Monday next.

not only in rendering military service to the Crown, but they were the means of enabling the authorities in this country to withdraw a portion of the Queen's troops from that colony. The pensioners were sent out on certain conditions; they were to have certain accommodation afforded, in the shape of houses, with lands attached to them, which they were to be permitted to

LORD PANMURE rose to put a ques-cultivate and improve. In New Zealand, tion to the noble Earl at the head of the Australia, and Van Diemen's Land, to Government, of which he had given him each of which colonies the Government notice. Before, however, putting his ques- sent bodies of men, these conditions had tion, he hoped he might be permitted to been faithfully kept; and the result was, enter into a short preliminary explanation that these pensioners were contented and of the subject to which his question re- faithful, and the services which they renlated, in order that he might render the dered to the Crown were undeniable. From question itself more clear and intelligible. that part of the world the noble Earl, late His question had reference to a meritorious Colonial Secretary, and himself directed class of individuals who had rendered con- their views to Canada, where they found siderable public service in various parts of a considerable number of pensioners lothe world he meant the body of pensioners cated who were not enrolled. It was belonging to the British Army. It would deemed advisable to send Major Drummond be in the recollection of their Lordships out there in order to ascertain whether that in 1843 his noble and gallant Friend, these pensioners were capable of service, now Commander of the Army, but who and if the Government in the Canadian cothen held the office which he (Lord Pan-lonies had any control over any portion of mure) had afterwards the honour of holding that of Secretary at War - introduced a measure for enrolling the pensioners who had received pensions for long service into a body fit for service under arms. When he (Lord Panmure) had the honour of succeeding to that office which his noble and gallant Friend had held with so much advantage to the public, he found that those pensioners had been of so much advantage to the public service, that he brought a Bill into the House of Commons, to which that House subsequently assented, to increase their number from 10,000, at which Lord Hardinge had fixed it, to 30,000, the number now enrolled. Those pensioners had been enrolled for nearly ten years, and had served the country with a zeal and fidelity which it was not necessary for him to praise, because all who had had anything to do with them had highly commended them. In 1847, so beneficial were their services esteemed in this country, that Earl Grey, who was then head of the Colonial Office, and himself (Lord Panmure), who was then in the War Office, thought it right to extend their services to the Colonies; and VOL. CXXIII. [THIRD SERIES.]

the land there which might be granted to those pensioners when they came to settle in the different localities to which they were sent. It was found that there were certain military reserves in Canada which were at the disposal of the Government, and that in the neighbourhood of Montreal and Toronto the Ordnance had entire control over certain military reserves, which, if they were disposed to surrender, would suit admirably for the purpose of locating pensioners upon. In communicating with the Ordnance they found that there was no difficulty on their part in surrendering those lands for the use of the number of pensioners it was then thought requisite or safe to send out at one period. They accordingly sent out a certain detachment to Canada, and the Government were consequently enabled to withdraw many of their troops from that colony also. In one portion of the Canadas, all the conditions which had been made with the pensioners had been faithfully fulfilled, and he believed that there was not a more contented or loyal body to be found than were located in that particular part of Canada. Elsewhere, he understood that the condition

2 A

held out to the pensioners, though partially | vernment to carry out those conditions? had not been entirely fulfilled; for instance, or, if the Government found those condiat Toronto. In sending the pensioners to tions to be impracticable, or in case some Toronto, the conditions entered into with unexpected difficulty had arisen, whether them were exactly the same as in the other they were prepared to offer any compensaplaces, namely, that they should receive tion, so as to remunerate those pensioners a certain portion of those lands which for the failure of the conditions entered they were to cultivate, and to hold upon into with the former Government? certain terms. Now he understood that The EARL of DERBY said, that though these pensioners had been there for many he agreed with the noble Lord in many months-there were 220 of them settled at parts of his speech, there was one part of Toronto-and no steps had been as yet it in which he entirely and most especially taken to fulfil the conditions upon which agreed-namely, that a succeeding Gothey were sent there. He did not wish to vernment, whatever opinion it might enthrow any blame upon the Government in tertain of the policy which dictated them, this matter-all he wished was, to draw was bound to carry out fully the engagetheir attention to the fact. He was sure ments into which its predecessors had that the noble Earl must be aware that no entered with any class of persons. He body of men were so jealous of any in- further agreed with the noble Lord in his fringement of any conditions made with observation that there was no class of men them as old soldiers and sailors, who had with whom it was more incumbent that served their country for many years, and good faith should be strictly observed than had retired upon pensions. Their Lord- that class of men to whom he had more ships might recollect the unfortunate step particularly referred-namely, the distaken in 1831, in sending out old soldiers charged pensioners of the Army and Navy. to Canada, and inducing them to commute At the same time, he must remark that he their pensions to four years' purchase. entertained strong doubts whether the sysThey might remember the sad fate of tem to which the noble Lord had adverted, many of the men who were led to enter and which had been in partial operation for into that melancholy bargain. It happen- the last three or four years, was likely to ed to him when Secretary at War to have be productive of so much unmixed benefit had occasion to call upon the public to re- as the noble Lord expected; and he could imburse those men for the losses they had not but fear that some inconvenience would sustained, and a more grateful task he had result, as had resulted on a former occanever had to perform. That, however, sion, from sending out old pensioners to should be a caution to us as to how we engage in a mode of life for which their sent pensioners abroad in the present day, previous habits had unfitted them; and, upon conditions which were not only writ- moreover, that you would not gain from ten, but which were printed and put into them in another country that military proeach man's hand on the authority and tection for which the noble Lord was such honour of the Secretary of State and the an advocate. That had, however, nothing Secretary at War for the time being. IIe to do with the question of good faith. He wished to impress upon the Government doubted the policy of the original scheme; that they should lose no time in settling and he doubted it the more, because there with these old soldiers upon terms that was no provision made, as their Lordships would prove satisfactory to them. They were well aware, for the removal of these might rely on it, aceording as they increas-old soldiers from the little plots on which ed that force, that they would have the best system of military colonisation that could be possibly adopted, and they would be increasing in the Colonies the number of loyal subjects, who would be ever loyal to the Queen, and bound by other obligations to the service of this country. Having said so much by way of explanation, he would now ask the noble Earl whether it was true that these conditions had not as yet been fulfilled, so far as regarded the pensioners who were settled at Toronto? Whether it was the intention of the Go

they were located when they were incapa-
ble of military service, or of working on
and cultivating their land. Consequently,
at no distant period you would have settled
on lands near the town a pauperised and
discontented population. The facts, as
stated by the noble Lord, were, that
up to
the present moment the conditions held
out to the pensioners sent to Toronto had
not been fulfilled. That was not the fault
of the present Government, but arose out
of the course adopted by their predeces-
sors in sending the men out with a promise