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He wished to ascertain from the right hon. | tax, he was strongly of opinion that this Gentleman, whether it was the intention of would lead to but a trifling loss of revenue.

the Government to make any alteration in the poor-law settlement and removal, which was a question of great importance affecting the city of London, where the inhabitants were subject to a very heavy tax for the support of casual poor?

MR. HUDSON could not withhold an expression of the gratification with which he had heard the statement of the right hon. Gentleman with regard to the shipping interest, which would be hailed by his constituents with much pleasure. He rejoiced at the right hon. Gentleman's statement, that the shipping interest would be put now upon a fair footing to compete with foreign countries, and he hoped nothing would prevent the carrying out of the measures contemplated. The timber duties formed another grievance, which he hoped ere long to see redressed.

MR. ALCOCK begged to tender his thanks to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for his proposal to repeal one-half of the malt tax. He thought that the whole of that tax ought to be done away with; but he was willing to accept the right hon. Gentleman's proposition by way of instalment. With respect to the tea duties, he, for one, was perfectly satisfied with the proposed reduction. He regretted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not made up his mind to carry out the income tax to the fullest extent possible, so that every man in the country might be taxed, be his income what it might.

On the subject of the hop duty, he would
not now pledge himself as to moving any
Amendment on the Ministerial proposition,
feeling bound in the first instance to con-
sult his constituents.
For the plan in ge-
neral he again begged to thank Her Ma-
jesty's Government.

66

Resolution put, and agreed to. A second Resolution, That a sum not exceeding 2,000,000l. be granted to Her Majesty for defraying a like amount of supplies voted for the service of the year 1852 and the preceding year," was then put from the chair, and agreed to.

MR. LABOUCHERE inquired whether the right hon. Gentleman would lay on the table on Monday the precise terms of the Resolutions on which his measures were to be founded.

The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE-
QUER answering in the affirmative,
House resumed.

The House adjourned at a quarter after
Eleven o'clock till Monday next.

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BUSINESS OF THE DAY. EARL GRANVILLE, who had a Motion on the notice-paper relating to the recordMR. FREWEN felt bound heartily to ing of Votes in Committee, said he felt he thank the right hon. Gentleman the Chan- ought to make some explanation and apocellor of the Exchequer for the very able logy to the House for not immediately statement he had put before them, and for postponing that Motion until another day, a plan which he believed would, in various seeing that there was a Motion upon the ways, be beneficial to his constituents. He paper immediately following his, having wished particularly to call attention to one reference to the commercial legislation of subject in which a great proportion of his the country. If he had expected that constituents were interested-he meant there was to be either a general acquiesthe heavy dues at present levied on ship-cence or a general debate upon the subject ping in the shape of passing tolls. He of what he might now describe as the glordid not know whether the right hon. Genious termination of an experiment which tleman was acquainted with the system of had been going on for six years in regard taxes on shipping established in France, which he thought well worthy of being adopted in this country. Every ship which went into a French harbour knew what it had to pay for harbour dues, whilst it had nothing to pay for lights. This was matter in which improved regulations were loudly called for, as many of our harbours were in a disgraceful state. With regard to the proposal to take off half the malt

to our commercial legislation, he should immediately have taken the course of postponing his Motion to another day. That did not appear, however, to be the case. The noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Deraby) had decided on taking a different course; he had declined either to agree in the words of the Resolution which was moved by his Colleagues in the other House, or to the form of words adopted

by those same Colleagues, and a great ma- | inside its walls again; but when he saw jority of their supporters, in that House: the terms of the Resolution that was proand he had proposed words, as it appeared posed to be moved by his noble Friend, so to him (Earl Granville), totally unmeaning entirely subversive did they appear to him as a declaration from a House which, by (the Earl of Radnor), of the principles its repeated votes upon the corn laws, the which had been sanctioned by their Lordsugar duties, and the repeal of the naviga-ships' House, and exactly contrary to the tion laws, had given its fullest sanction to understanding given out by Her Majesty's the existing legislation on those subjects. Government on the subject of free trade or His noble Friend (the Marquess of Clanri- unrestricted competition, that he had come carde), who had been one of the earliest up to town to take his seat in their Lordand most consistent supporters of free ships' House that day, for the purpose of trade-having, perhaps, a desire to have moving an Amendment. Since he had unanimity in that House, and also to show come into the House, he had been given to a spirit of conciliation to the furthest pos- understand that another noble Lord had sible extent; and influenced, perhaps, by given notice of his intention to move an a feeling that those words, although they Amendment, in order that the matter should had little meaning in themselves, obtained be discussed. He could assure his noble some value from a foriner declaration of the Friend (Earl Granville) that whatever power noble Earl (the Earl of Derby) bound the he possessed should be exercised in securHouse firmly and unreservedly to the com- ing an ample discussion of the Resolumercial system which had been established tion. -had consented to adopt those words, and had also concurred in deprecating any great discussion on that question. The House appeared also to come to a sort of understanding, although a hurried one, that there should not, at all events, be any division on the subject; and there was also a general impression that no very great discussion would take place. This being the position of the question, and as it assumed an aspect of such little importance, he was unwilling to withdraw from the orders a question, the consideration and settlement of which would prove of great utility in adding to the value and credit of their Lordships' Committees. But the slightest intimation from either side of the House would induce him to deviate from that determination, and postpone it to a future day.

EARL GRANVILLE said, after what had fallen from the noble Earl, he did not think he should be justified in pressing on his Motion; and he should, therefore, postpone it until to-morrow.

COMMERCIAL LEGISLATION-FREE

TRADE.

The MARQUESS of CLANRICARDE rose for the purpose of moving the following Resolution:

"That this House, thankfully acknowledging the general prosperity, and deeply sensible of the evils attending frequent changes in the financial policy of the country, adheres to the commercial system recently established, and would view with regret any renewed attempt to disturb its operation or impede its further progress."

It certainly would be unpardonable in him to trespass at any great length on their Lordships' attention, after the general understanding which had been come to among noble Lords on a previous occasion, that there should not be a division on the question. But at the same time, as objections had been taken to the course which he had felt it his duty in rather difficult circumstances to adopt, he hoped their Lordships would allow him for a short time to endeavour to meet these

The EARL of RADNOR said, he understood his noble Friend (Earl Granville) to say that he would either withdraw his Motion, or postpone it till a future occasion, if he was given to understand that some debate would arise on the Resolution in the paper respecting the commercial legislation of the country. His noble Friend had also alluded to an understanding which he supposed to have taken place in their Lordships' House on a former occasion with re-objections. In the first place, it had been gard to that Resolution. He (the Earl of Radnor) begged to say he was no party to that understanding, and he did not feel himself bound by it. It was now some years since he had been in that House, and a few days ago he should have said there was no chance of his putting his foot

objected that it was perfectly unnecessary that any Motion whatever should be made on the subject in that House; and in the next place, he now understood that the original Motion which he had intended to propose to their Lordships was about to be moved as an Amendment by his noble

The

Friend behind him (Lord Beaumount)- the amusement, he thought, of all who had namely, that their Lordships should adopt heard or read it, that the Protectionist the same Resolution which had been come party in this country had not wished since to by the other House of Parliament. 1846, or in the least endeavoured, to have Now it happened that the original Resolu- a return to a system of protective duties tion, of which he (the Marquess of Clan- on foreign corn. He (the Marquess of ricarde) gave notice, was conceived in Clanricarde) therefore said that it was not those very terms; but that Resolution unnatural that there should be the greatest being objected to by the noble Earl op-apprehension felt, when that party, with posite (the Earl of Derby), he (the Mar- the noble Lord opposite at their head, acquess of Clanricarde) then framed another, ceded to office early in this year, upon which he certainly thought would have that subject which the country had wished met his concurrence; but the noble Earl should receive a Parliamentary settlement. objected to that also. He then, for the It would be also in their recollection that sake of obtaining what he thought would noble Lords on his (the Marquess of Clanbe a unanimous vote on this subject in ricarde's) side of the House, and several that House, consented to take the words other noble Lords, had pressed the noble which the noble Earl had himself prepared, Earl opposite very strongly for a decided which were certainly not the words which declaration of the policy the Government he (the Marquess of Clanricarde) should meant to adopt on that subject. have liked to have moved if he had merely noble Earl, however, deferred to make any consulted his own feelings, but which he declaration on the question-he refused, in had adopted for the reason he had given fact, to do so-until an appeal had been on a former day. He now found himself made to the sense of the country; but he in that unfortunate position which he be- distinctly intimated that after the general lieved was not uncommon to men who, election Parliament should be called to aswhen they endeavoured to gain unanimity semble in order that the question should be by concession, ended in finding themselves finally settled. It was in conformity with more or less opposed by all parties; a that promise that their Lordships were lesson which, in future, should not be lost then assembled. Now he (the Marquess upon him. Now he was of opinion that of Clanricarde) said, if Parliament were that House should move in this subject on called together in order that the sense of two distinct grounds: first, that it was Parliament might be taken on any particudue, under the circumstances in whichlar question, it was not constitutional for a they were placed, that the question should be directly brought before them; and next, it was desirable, for the sake of the question itself, that that House should pronounce an opinion decidedly affirmative of the commercial system which he thought had been so happily established. And, although those two grounds were distinct in themselves, he thought that the reasons by which they might be supported were more or less identical. Let their Lordships consider the position in which they now found themselves. Early in this year the present Ministry acceded to office. He had no doubt that their Lordships were now, as hitherto, prepared to grant to them that general support, without which the Ministers of the Crown could not continue to perform the duties they owed to their Sovereign and to the nation at large. But upon one question apprehension was not unnaturally felt. He said, "not unnaturally felt," because he was quite convinced the noble Earl would not tell their Lordships, as had been said in another assembly to the amazement and

Minister of the Crown, and it would not be wise for that House of Parliament, to submit that that sense should be supposed to be taken by a vote taken only in the House of Commons, without bringing the same question for settlement before their Lordships' House. But the noble Earl (the Earl of Derby) had said he considered that this question was sufficiently noticed in the Speech from the Throne, and in their Lordships' Address in reply to that Speech. There could be no doubt that the terms of the paragraph in the Queen's Speech implied that, under the system recently established-under what had been called there and elsewhere "recent legis. lation"-the prosperity of the country had been increased, and its condition improved; but it should be remembered that it also distinctly implied that serious injury had been inflicted on certain important interests, and inferred that the industry of the country could not be carried on under a system of unrestricted competition without some extraordinary legislation on the subject. Now, whilst the Address in reply to

Earl of Derby) had been the head and chief and the mainstay, as well as the ornament of the great party who had been identified with the principle of protection; and therefore it was, that he (the Marquess of Clanricarde) thought that in that House this question should have been fairly and fully brought under their Lordships' consideration. Again, the noble Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs was charged with the conduct of all diplomatic negotiations between this and foreign Governments, and it was absolutely necessary that there should be no misapprehension with respect to this question in the diplomatic communications which might pass between the Government of this country and those of Foreign States-for he well knew the importance of an agent abroad not being exposed to hints that his instructions were not entirely in accordance with the personal feelings of the Minister. He knew also how much weight was there attached to the feelings of people in office in this country; for, when he had the honour to represent Her Majesty at the Court of St. Petersburgh, he was, when conversing on commercial questions, over and over again met on the subject of the corn laws with the assertion that he knew very well in his heart this country would never agree to the repeal or to any great modification of the corn laws. It was in vain that he asserted his own opinion on that subject, for he then undoubtedly believed that the corn laws would not last long as they then were, and that many years would not elapse before a change took place. He knew, therefore, that it was of great importance that diplomatic and consular agents should be known to be acting according to the opinions of the Minister at home. Now, the Resolution which had been agreed to by the other House of Parliament was passed by an overwhelming majority, and one which was not more remarkable for its numbers than for the elements of which it was composed; and he could not for the life of him understand why the noble Earl and his Friends chose to draw a distinction between the vote of their Lordships' House and the vote of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and their Friends and Colleagues in the other House of Parliament. He did not wish to attribute motives; but one of two things must have been the cause of that. Either the noble Earl and his Colleagues opposite were not sincerely agreed in opinion with their Colleagues in the other

the Speech from the Throne was being considered by their Lordships, their time and attention were so much engrossed with a sense of the many and important duties which they had to discharge, and which had since been honourably executed, that they were then unwilling unnecessarily to go into the discussion of this great question. He therefore thought it was wise and well that no Amendment was moved either in that or the other House of Parliament on the Address to the Throne; and that when the subject came under consideration in the House of Commons no attempt was made either to negative the Resolution, or to get rid of it by moving "the previous question." Now, he said, it would have been wise and right for the Government themselves to have come forward and proposed a Resolution on the subject; and he was still bound to say, what he had said on other occasions, that he thought under all the circumstances the Resolutions which it would have been best for their Lordships' House to come to were those adopted by the other House of Parliament. He felt all the force, authority, and weight which a concurrent vote of all parties in the other House of Parliament commanded; and if their Lordships' House would unanimously agree to any vote which would confirm the established commercial policy, he believed their unanimity would in every respect have an equal weight, force, and authority. He could not therefore say, that he regretted having acceded to the proposition of the noble Earl at the head of the Government. But there was another reason why he thought that their Lordships' House should have moved in that question, and why a vote of that House would have carried with it even greater weight than the vote in the other House of Parliament, namely, that they had in that House the First Minister of the Crown. He (the Marquess of Clanricarde) knew that, constitutionally speaking, all the Ministers were responsible for the advice which they might give to the Crown; but no man could deny that the First Minister of the Crown was the immediate medium of communication between the Cabinet and the Sovereign, and that, in the estimation of the country, he was always considered-wielding, as he did, such immense patronage, and deciding, as he must ultimately, all the deliberations of the Cabinet-as the most responsible person in the Government. Nor could it be denied that the noble Earl opposite (the

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House, or else they felt themselves weak preferable to that adopted-proposed by in that House, and unable to carry the vote Mr. Villiers, that he would look; he should and the measure which they desired. He go no further than the Journals of their (the Marquess of Clanricarde) was free to Lordships' House, where he found the imsay that he did not wish to throw the mortal protest written by Lord Grenville, slightest doubt upon the sincerity of the in 1815, on the subject of the corn laws, intentions of the Government on this sub- and which was in entire conformity with his ject; and that was another reason why he own sentiments. Their Lordships would was content to adopt the words of the Re- forgive him if he read that memorable solution upon their Lordships' paper. The document. It was in these terms:words of the Resolution suggested by the noble Earl, and which he (the Marquess of Clanricarde) had now to propose, were brief; but brief as they were, they were still stronger than the Address in reply to the Speech from the Throne; for this at least is stated directly, and in plain language that that House adhered to the commercial system recently established. Now, that was an important statement for the House and the country to obtain from the noble Earl. He knew also the Resolution was not extracted from the Government in the slightest degree as a compromise; for he believed in his heart that the noble Earl and his Friends were now prepared to act in conformity with the principles of free trade, and not upon the principles of that which had been well termed elsewhere the 66 exploded," if not " obsolete," system of protection. Even if he had entertained any doubt on that subject, it would have been dispelled by the remarkable statement contained in the Budget brought forward on Friday evening in the other House of Parliament by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and which he thought was free from all taint or vice of what might be called protection; and he was content to take it as the best possible test of the sincerity of the Government of the noble Earl opposite. It was impossible for any man who had been party to that Budget to come down and talk to the other Ilouse of Parliament in the strain of such a notice of Motion, for example, as stood on the books of that House in the last Session in the name of Sir John Pakington. | But if their Lordships were going to frame a Resolution which should be really worthy of their Lordships' House and this subject if he (the Marquess of Clanricarde) was going to look simply to the subject abstractedly, and not to consider the position that the adoption of any permanent law for such a in which they now were, or in which the purpose, required the fullest and most laborious other side of the House might be with re-investigation. Nor would it have been sufficient ference to the other House of Parliament -it was not to the Resolution which was adopted by the other House-it was not to the Resolution-which he thought infinitely

"Dissentient-1. Because we are adverse in principle to all new restraints on commerce. think it certain that public prosperity is best promoted by leaving uncontrolled the free current of national industry; and we wish rather, by well-considered steps, to bring back our commercial legislation to the straight and simple line of wisdom, than to increase the deviation by subjecting additional and extensive branches of the public interest to fresh systems of artificial and injurious restriction. 2. Because we think that the great practical rule of leaving all commerce unfettered applies more peculiarly, and on still stronger grounds of justice as well as of policy, to the corn trade than to any other. Irresistible, indeed, must be that necessity which could, in our judgment, authorise the Legislature to tamper with the sustenance of the peothat article on which depends the existence of so ple, and to impede the free purchase and sale of large a portion of the community. 3. Because we think that the expectations of ultimate benefit from this measure are founded on a delusive theory. We canuot persuade ourselves that this law will ever contribute to produce plenty, cheapness, or steadiness of price. So long as it operates at all, its effects must be the opposite of these. Monopoly is the parent of scarcity, of dearness, and of uncertainty. To cut off any of the sources of supply, can only tend to lessen its est market for any commodity, must enhance the abundance; to close against ourselves the cheapprice at which we purchase it; and to confine the consumer of corn to the produce of his own country, is to refuse to ourselves the benefit of that provision which Providence itself has made for equalising to man the variations of season and of climate. 4. But, whatever may be the future consequences of this law at some distant and uncertain period, we see, with pain, that these hopes must be purchased at the expense of a great and chase corn nearer at home than it might be impresent evil. To compel the consumer to purported from abroad, is the immediate practical effect of this law. In this way alone can it opcrate. Its present protection, its promised extension of agriculture must result (if at all) from the profits which it creates by keeping up the price of corn to an artificial level. These future benefits are the consequences expected, but as we confidently believe erroneously expected, from giving a bounty to the grower of corn, by a tax levied on its consumer. 5. Because we think

for our satisfaction, could we have been convinced of the general policy of so hazardous an experiment. A still further inquiry would have been necessary to persuade us that the present moment was fit for its adoption. In such an inquiry we

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