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FEB. 12, 1828.]

Navy Appropriations.

(H. Or R.

a part of the report. He wished to let it remain, until Mr. WHIPPLE said, the gentleman went on the prethe information was before the House. The usual num- sumption that it would be necessary to print a new edition ber of copies were ordered to be printed, that the mem of the documents. He denied that any member had a bers may have them to read, and be able to compare the right to presume so. Was there any thing in the ques. results of their examination with the report. He was not tion which requires this extreme sensibility as to the pubable to say he if could vote for the report. He was not lication? He wished an opportunity to go into an exam. prepared to say that it was either correct or incorrect ination of the documents, and to have all the information He did not think it material as to the order in which the he could gain from the report. He wished to have the papers were printed, but he thought it material, when evidence, without the report, according to the former orthe House was called on to act on the report, that it der of the House. should be in possession of all the facts. The House was The question was then taken on Mr. BEECUER's monow asked to adopt a part of the report. He could not tion to postpone the further consideration of the question sanction any thing which, by insinuation, charged corrup. till Monday; and it was decided in the negative-ayes 71, tion. Any member on this foor, who chose to incur the noes 110. responsibility, could insinuate such a charge, by saying The question was then taken on the motion of Mr. that the Department made a false report. He did not STORRs to amend ; which was decided in the negative wish to do this, until he could see the evidence. It had ayes 82, noes 107. become much too fashionable to depart from the subject, Mr. DRAYTON rose to move an amendment to append in order to throw suspicions on public officers. The ef. to the report the documents called for by the gentleman fect of such a course is, to sap the foundation of our in- from Ohio, from the War Department. stitutions. Fvery officer is entitled to respect, until he Mr. WICKLIFFE called for the previous question: shall be proved undeserving.

which motion prevailed. He hoped gentlemen would check this course. He The question being then—"Shall the main question wished for information-for the documents to be printed be now put ?" It was decided in the affirmative-ayes first, in order that when the report is to be acted on, he 105, noes 75. might be prepared to give his vote, either to accept or The question was then taken, on the passage of the rereject it. The present motion is out of the natural order solution, and agreed to-ayes 108, noes 69. of things. It is acting without information on which to act. When the usual number of papers are ordered to be

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 1828. printed, it is to enable the House to act; when a larger number is ordered, it is to give information to the Peo.

NAVY APPROPRIATIONS. ple. The House crders the printing, that members may On motion of Mr. McDUFFIE, the House went into be enabled to act on the evidence they contain, leaving Committee of the whole on the state of the Union, Mr. individual character untouched, unless facts are such CondICT in the Chair, and took up the bill making apas to warrant accusation. He hoped neither the resolution propriations for the Naval Service for the year 1828. The nor the amendment would be acted on now, nor until fur. bill was read through, and then taken up by sections ; ther information had been obtained. Then, let the evi. and the clause of appropriation for the pay and subsist. dence go to the People in as many volumes as you please. ence being under considerationHe could not act without a proper understanding of the Mr. HOFFMAN, Chairman of the Committee of Naval subject. He wished the House to be less in a hurry in go- Affairs, requested Mr. McDUFFIE, Chairman of the Coming balves, than it seemed to be in going wholes-to think mittee of Ways and Means, who had reported the bill, to less of men, and more of principles. If we do not curb state to the House what was the increase in the number passion, and let reason govern, we shall show ourselves of officers in the estimates of the present year, over the to be but a licentious body. He concluded with a motion number of officers in the estimates of last year. to postpone the further consideration of this subject till Mr. McDUFFIE replied, that he had imperfectly un. Monday next.

derstood the gentleman from New York, but would state, Mr. CAMBRELENG asked for the ayes and noes on in reply to what he had understood to be his question, this question, which were ordered.

that the increase in amount for this item was about Mr. WHIPPLE asked what would be the effect if this $20,000; which difference grew out of the increased nummotion should succeed? whether the order for the print- ber of officers. ing could not be sent, and the House would have the first Mr. HOFFMAN then went into a lengthy detailed order perfected.

statement, in which he compared the estimates of this Mr. J. S. STEVENSON said, he saw the effect of the year and ihe last, as they applied to each grade of ofproposition. The documents would be printed, as they ficers. The number of Captains, in 1827, was 27 ; for were originally ordered, and the report would be laid on this year, 32. Those in commission in 1887, were 8 ; the table. Then, if the motion should prevail, we should those for this year, 9. Captains waiting orders last year, have a double set of documents. When these papers were 9; this year, 13. Lieutenants waiting orders last were called for by a majority of the House, at the instance year, were 83 ; those waiting orders this year, 111. Surof the gentleman from Ohio, and the call was complied geons, two more this year than last-12 waiting for orders. with by the War Department, it was in the power of the Surgeon's mates were increased from 28 to 32: waiting House to do what it pleased with the documents. They orders last year none : this year, 11. Pursers increased were referred to the Military Committee ; a motion was from 21 to 23—4 waiting orders last year ; 8 this year. made to send them to the committee on the Militia, but Midshipmen waiting orders last year, 20 : this year, 85. they went to the former. Had not the Committee power He summed up the increase for the present year as fol. to consider, arrange, and detain the papers, as long as lows : 5 Captains, 1 Commandant, 55 Lieutenants, 17 they might think it essential to their views ? When they Surgeons, 14. Surgeon's mates, 6 Pursers, 3 Chaplains, communicated their report, was it not fair that the report and 156 Midshipmen. After stating the reasons given by should go to the world? Under the order of the House, the Secretary for this increase, Mr. H. insisted, that, if the object of a minority would be accomplished. If a any alterations were to be introduced in the management majority be disposed to affix the report to the documents, of the Navy, those changes could be more easily effected would they consent to postpone and thus defeat the desire if the number of officers was few than many. The only of the majority? Ile hoped the question would not be limit to the number of appointments was in the restrict. postponed.

ing the appropriations for their pay and subsistence. He VOL. IV.-95

H. or R.)

Navy Appropriations.

(FEB. 12, 1828.

1

expressed his willingness to increase the number of offi- statement lay in this : that he had compared the esticers so far as might be necessary for vessels actually in mates of this year with the estimates of the last year; commission, but was opposed to increasing the number of whereas, he ought to have compared the estimates of this those waiting for orders. The Navy now cost about one year, with the expenses of the preceding year, on which seventh of the whole expenditure of the Government. they were founded. Had he done this, he would have That arm of the Government was at present highly po- found, that, instead of being greater, they were about pular ; but would not continue to be so if it were suffered 150,000 dollars less than those of the preceding year. to grow too expensive. Mr. H. concluded by stating that Mr. D. did not agree with Mr. TarloR as to the neces. he was unable to designate what particular sum should sity of restricting the Executive discretion, in the apbe substituted for that now in the bill, as he had not re- pointment of officers. He recapitulated the increasing ceived the necessary data for that purpose from the Navy appropriations which had been made, and the multiDepartment.

plied items of expenditure 'which bad arisen from the Mr. TAYLOR congratulated the House that this building of ten sloops of war-the erection of dry docks subject had received the attention of the Naval Com- at New York and Boston-the depot at Pensacola, &c. mittee. He deprecated the omission, on the part of Con- and insisted that the number of officers was not greatgress, heretofore, to fix the number of Naval officers, as er than these new and various branches of the service it had done that of the officers of the Army. He thought required. it highly improper that their number should be left dis- Mr. McDUFFIE stated the facts, from which the incretionary with the Executive branch of the Govern.creased estimates of the present year had arisen, and ment, and pressed upon the Naval Committee the pro among them, dwelt especially upon the increased num. priety of bringing in a bill fixing the Navy Peace Esta- ber of Lieutenants and Midshipmen. He gave no opiblishment.

nion as to the necessity or expediency of this increase ; Mr. McDUFFIE sent to the Clerk's table a letter from he denied that the number of officers employed was to the Secretary of the Navy, explaining in detail the esti- be regulated by the number of vessels in commission. mates from that Department for the present year.

Their number was five times as great as was needed for a Mr. WILLIAMS inquired of Mr. Hoffman, whether state of peace, if that state was always to continue. The he considered the total number of officers, proposed to necessity of their employment arose from the necessity be employed, as too great in proportion to the services of being prepared for war. He would not say that it was proposed to be performed, and whether the whole num- inexpedient, in this point of view, to increase the number ber was any greater than was requisite for that service of officers. He was incompetent to judge of that point, which was author zed by law.

but should be unwilling to refuse, without further light, Mr. HOFFMAN replied, that the number would be far the appropriation asked for Viewing the Naval Estatoo small if all the vessels in the Navy were actually in blishment in peace, as in fact a preparation for war, he commission, but not more than half our vessels were in thought the number of officers oright to bear some geneactual service; and, in reply to the other question, he ral relation to the number of ships, and that, if the Navy said, that if the estimates of last year were to be taken itself was increased, some increase of officers was unaas a standard of judgment, the number of officers pro. voidable. If the Chairman of the Naval Committee posed for the present year was too great in proportion. would suggest some mode of restraining the number of The estimate contemplated an increase in the service, Lieutenants and Midshipmen, he would uvite with him which Mr. H. did not think necessary.

in such a measure. After some explanations from Mr. Tarlor, Mr. Mr. WHIPPLE insisted, that, as this whole subject had HOFFMAN continued his speech, and opposed the ex. been placed within the discretion of the Navy Departpediency of fixing a Peace Establishment, thinking it ment, that Department should either be permitted to arbetter that the number of officers should be regulated, range the number of officers as it thought proper ; or be from year to year, according to the contingencies of the accused of malfeasance in office. He presumed the service. He was opposed to every thing like a sinecure Head of that Department had sufficient ability to exer. office. He would pay the officers liberally when in ac- cise a sound discretion. Mr. W. insisted upon the bet. tual service ; but not retain large numbers of them, upon ter information possessed by the Department as to the salary, waiting orders.

necessity of changing the arrangement of different deMr. STORŘS, (who was last year Chairman of the Na tachments of the Navy than existed elsewhere, and such val Committee) went into an explanation of the causes changes are necessarily expensive. Let the House either which had led to an increase in the extent and expenses trust to the discretion of the Department, or regulate of the Navy. He insisted that the expenditure was eco- the matter themselves by law. He had heard no good nomica), having been more than made up by the value reason advanced to show that the discretion reposed in of our commerce which it had protected. The increase the Department had been improperly exercised. of the officers ought to keep pace with that of the Navy Mr. BARNEY, adverting to the situation of Mr. Hoff. itself. As to a temporary employment of them, to cease MAN, as Chairman of the Naval Committee, reprobated as soon as their ships ceased to be in commission, he de. the sentiments expressed from so influential a quarter, in nounced it as utterly destructive of our Naval interests regard to paying the officers only while in actual service, and character. He pronounced the present pay of the as tending to degrade the standing of those gentlemen, officers to be inadequate to the stations they respective and drive them from the public employment, the effect ly occupied. He denied that there were any sinecures of which would be to ruin the service, and leave the in the Navy, and insisted that, if the number of officers Navy of the United States bottom upwards. Mr. B. dewas at any time too great, the fault did not lie with the nied that the number of officers was too great even for a Department, but with Congress, who had frequently been permanent Peace Establishment. There were no supersolicited by the Department to fix the number by law. numeraries-no sinecures. The increase of Midshipmen, Such an arrangement was earnestly wished for by the instead of being upwards of ninety, as by the estimates Secretary of the Navy : but he had hitherto asked it in it would appear to be, was, in fact, but about fifty. He vain. The increase of the expense of the Navy was on. concluded by insisting that the extent of the Navy was ly in proportion to the increased extension of the com- only in proportion to the commerce of the country ; that merce which it had to protect.

the Navy was, in effect, the right arm of the nation. Mr. DWIGHT replied at considerable length to the Mr. SERGEANT stated, as a reason why the number remarks of Mr. Hoffman, the general error of whose of vessels in commission would require to be increased,

FEB. 13, 14, 1828.]

Navy Approprialions. ---Internal Improvements.

(H. OF R.

that information had just been received from the South. President of the United States may think necessary and ward, that great danger was apprehended from the rise of proper, to provide live oak, and other timber, for the piracy in the Gulf of Mexico. Applications on that sub- use of the Navy of the United States, a sum not ex. ject had this day been received at the Navy Department, ceeding ten thousand dollars, to be paid out of the mo. from the Insurance Companies of Philadelphia and New neys appropriated for the gradual increase of the Navy York, and others would no doubt follow, from Boston and of the United States, by the first section of the act, en. elswhere, urging the propriety of stationing an addition titled "An act for the gradual improvement of the Na. al force in the Carribean sea, in consequence of the pro- vy of the United States," approved 3d March, 1827.” clamation of Commodore Porter, inviting privateers into Mr. HOFFMAN stated, in explanation, that the Se. the Mexican service. While this increase of our Naval cretary of the Navy, endeavoring to fulfil a law passed force was required in that quarter, the service in the Pa. at the last session, for reserving certain portions of the cific, on the coast of Brazil, and above all, in the Mediter public land on which timber fit for ship building was ranean, would not allow of any diminution. Mr. S. in. found, bad experienced considerable difficulty from the Eisted, that the power of appointing officers was pro- intervention of private claims, which, though small in perly vested, and that, as long as the House could check amount, must be satisfied before the law could be car. it by the amount of appropriations, there was no need of ried into effect. This was especially the case in Floriregulating the number of officers by legislative enact. da. It was with a view to the extinction of the private ment. As to a Peace Establishment, the Navy knew no titles that he had moved the amendment. such thing as peace. From its creation to this day, it had The question being put, it was adopted without opbeen in perpetual service. Our commerce had required position. incessant protection, and was likely now to require still Mr. HOFFMAN then moved to fill the blank in the more in the Gulf of Mexico, and in the Mediterranean. section which provides for the pay and subsistence of Ifa Peace Establishment was fixed at all, it must be fixed officers, with $ 1,100,081 75, instead of $ 1,176,312, at a maximum of what was likely to be required, which which had been proposed by the Committee of Ways would be a very extravagant arrangement. The ships and Means, in conformity with the estimates from the and men of a Navy might be changed, but its officers grew Navy Department. up from childhood in the service, and could only be ma. Mr. HOFFMAN then made a speech, of considerable tured by long practice and experience. It was now the length, in support of his motion, in which he went over settled policy of this Nation, that its Navy was to be grad-nearly the same grounds as he had taken in the debate ually increased ; and, if so, the number of officers ought of yesterday. He did not wish to interfere with the of. to increase with it. Congress had fixed the number and ficers attached to vessels in actual service, nor with size of its sbips, and therein had done all that was re. those that would be required for the increase of the quired of them, towards fixing the number of officers. service, which had been proposed by the Secretary of Should the service be cut too short of officers, it might the Navy. He wished only to prevent the increase of chance to fail on the very point most exposed, and a loss the number of officers waiting orders. The increase of be thereby incurred far greater than all the petty saving these persons proposed by the Department included 4 which might be produced by curtailing the appropriation. captains, 7 masters commandant, 28 lieutenants, 12 sur. · Mr. HOFFMAN now spoke in reply. The Naval Re- geons, 11 surgeons' mates, pursers, and 65 midshipgister assigned eight vessels to the West India station. men; the amount of whose united pay and subsistence These were more than sufficient to quard against any dan. would be $ 76,230 25. This sura he wished cut off gers in that quarter. He thought the past history of our from the appropriation. Navy was sufficient to shew that no naval nursing and The motion of Mr. HOFFMAN gave rise to a debate, schooling from infancy, was required to form able and ac- which occupied the House till four o'clock, and which, complished officers. The merchant-service supplied such in the subjects treated, and the arguments employed, training, and an officer of spirit would rather return to resembled so nearly that of yesterday, that a detailed rethat service, when out of active employ in the Navy, port of it would be little more than a repetition. than receive a salary which he did not earn.

The motion was opposed by Messrs. SPRAGUE, ed the necessity of fixing a permanent Peace Establish. GILMER, INGERSOLL, WOOD, of New York, BART. ment to the extent suggested. He professed his zeal for LETT, DRAYTON, and WEEMS; and advocated by maintaining this arm of the national defence, on which he Mr. HoFFMAN, in a closing speech, in which he replied bestowed very liberal commendations, but opposed the to the several gentlemen who had opposed the motion. position that the number of officers was to go on con- The question being then put first upon the larger tinually increasing: Peace might last a quarter of a cen- sum moved by the Committee of Ways and Means, it tury, and yet, at this rate, the expense of the Navy will be was carried in the affirmative-Ayes 104, Noes 53. so enormously increased, that it might at length constitute The committee tben rose and reported the bill. one-half of the expense of the Government. Mr. H. concluded by moving that the committee rise

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1828. to give time for procuring further information from the

INTERNAL IMPROVEMENTS. Navy Department, but withdrew the motion at the re

The House went into Committee of the Whole on the quest of Mr. SERGEANT, who replied in explanation. It ations for internal improvements.

state of the Union, and took up the bill making appropriwas true, that the Naval Register gave eight vessels to Mr. SPRAGUE moved to amend the bill by increasthe West India station, but of these, only three were in ing the appropriation for removing obstructions at Love. that service at this time, the Erie, the Grampus, and the joy's Narrows, from $2,500 to $3,500. Natchez ; the others being in port undergoing repairs. Mr. S. said, that the Kennebec river, at this place,

On motion of Mr. LITTLE, the committee rose, re was narrow and rapid; and in the centre of the current ported, and obtained leave to sit again.

were two rocks, one rising above, and the other lying

just below the surface of the water. The force of the WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 1828.

current propelled vessels directly upon these rocks, and NAVY APPROPRIATIONS.

of course they could be passed only when the wind was Mr. HOFFMAN moved the following:

strong enough, and in the right direction to command “And be it further enacted, That there be, and hereby the vessel and control the current. For this they is, appropriated, for the purchase of such lands as the frequently had to wait, and sometimes in considerable

He oppos

H. OF R.]

Internal Improvements.

(FEB. 14, 1828.

number, for several days. The last Congress, upon what has been done for that State! Owning one.eigKth the recommendation of the Committee of Commerce, of the whole tonnage of the United States, with an exmade an appropriation for removing one of these rocks. tended coast of three hundred miles in extent, and borThat appropriation was found insufficient. The Secre- dering for a still greater distance upon the British protary of War had recommended an additional appropria vinces, where difficulties have already arisen out of the tion of $2,500 for that object, which sum the Committee unsettled question of our Northeastern boundary, and of Ways and Means, of which he [Mr. S.) had the honor still greater evils apprehended, what have you done for to be a member, had reported in this bill. But it was her defence and protection ! Wbile millions upon milessentially necessary that the other rock, called "Sunken | lions have been expended in fortifying other portions of rock," and which is comparatively small, should also be our country, and while immense 'sums have been sunk removed, and the expense would not exceed one thou in the works at the Rip Raps, in the vicinity of that sand dollars, if done at the same time with the first : for gentleman's (Mr. Bassett's) constituents, you have de the workmen, with all their tools and apparatus, being voted not a dollar to Maine. And you now have, I beupon the spot, the expense of commencing a new un- lieve, only four guns mounted in the whole State ; not dertaking would be saved. Considerations of expe. sufficient to keep off any privateer or picaroon that diency and economy dictated the removal of both ob- might be fitted out at Halifax ! Sir, I cannot believe stacles at the same time. Mr. S. said, that there was that the small pittance now asked will be refused, and no work mentioned in this bill, nor any other which had I will not detain you by any further remarks. come under his observation, which was so important, Mr. RASSETT said he had said “no," to every one compared with the expense, as that which he was ad- of the itens. vocating. The annual loss, by detention of vessels The question was then taken on the motion of Mr. merely, to say nothing of the injuries frequently sus- SPRAGUE—Ayes 71, Noes 52. So the amendment was tained by their striking upon these rocks, was equal to agreed to. the whole expense of removing these obstructions. Mr. McDUFFIE moved to fill the blank in the 47th This subject had been under the consideration of the line, after the words “for defraying the expenses inciCommittee of Commerce at the present session; and he dental to making examinations and surveys under the was authorized by the Chairman of that Committee to act of 30th of April, 1824,” with “$30,000;" wbich state, that the present motion received their sanction was agreed to. and approbation. Mr. S. said, he did not intend to dis- Mr. McDUFFIE moved to insert, between the 44th cuss the subject, but merely to make such a statement and 45th lines, the following : "For preserving and that the facts might be clearly understood.

securing the light-house on the Brandywine Sboal, in Mr. BASSETT said he was opposed to the Southern Delaware Bay, $10,000.". In explanation, he observ. States being taxed to remove obstructions in a river in ed that about $30,000 had formerly been appropriated which the citizens of Maine were only interested. for the erection of this light-house, than which there

Mr. SPRAGUE said the gentleman from Virginia was none more important in that bay. The Executive (Mr. Bassett] had misunderstood him. He had not officers, to whom the superintendence of this structure said that the annual saving to his constituents would be belonged, considering it so much injured by storms as equal to the expense of removing the obstacles in this to be incapable of repair, had not asked any approprianavigation. He had not mentioned his own constituents. tion for that purpose ; but farther inquiry had led to the The place where this work was to be accomplished, conclusion, that, with some exertion, it might be saved, was not within his District. His constituents would be and reinstated. It was for this purpose that he asked benefitted, it was true, but it would be in common with the present appropriation. After some conversation as other portions of his own State, and with the citizens of to the appropriate committee to whom this subject other States. The gentleman is in error in supposing should bave been referred, the item was agreed to. the advantages of this improvement to be entirely local. Mr. MARTIN, of s. C. inquired of the Chairman of Vessels resort to this river from various portions of our the Committee of Ways and Means, whether the sum of country, and trade is carried on from them, not only to $30,000, which he had moved tor defraying the expenalmost every part of the United States, but to the West ses incidental to making examinations and surveys under Indies and other foreign places. There are now more the act of 30th April, 1824, was intended to pay for sur. than thirty thousand tons of shipping owned in the river veys already ordered, or for those yet future. Kennebec, and it is fast increasing. That river pene. Mr. M.DUFFIE replied that there might possibly be trates the centre of one State, and traverses one of the some small arrears from the last year, but he understood most fertile portions of it; our permanent seat of Go- the greater part of it to be for future surveys. vernment has been established upon its banks and a Mr. M'COY said, that, as he presumed, of course, that road has been commenced, and will, I trust, soon be the Executive could not order surveys to exceed the completed, from its head waters to the city of Quebec. sum appropriated by law, the whole of this sum must be Sir, I repeat that the work which I advocate is, in pro for those not yet commenced. portion to the expense, beyond comparison more impor. Mr. DWIGHT stated this to be the fact. There was tant than any improvement for navigation proposed in a small balance of $45, left from last year. The estimate this bil. The bill proposes to expend more than of the Secretary of War for the present year had been $33,000, in addition to large appropriations heretofore $50,000, but the Committee of'Ways and Means had made, for the improvement of harbors upon the Lakes reduced this sum to 30,000, in conformity with the anErie and Ontario, and the whole amount of shipping on nual appropriation assigned to this object for some years both of those Lakes is not equal to the one-half the ton- past. nage owned in the Kennebec river. Yet the gentleman Mr. MARTIN then moved to strike out this entire from Virginia has quietly kept his seat, without rising item, and supported his motion in a short speech. He to offer a syllable of objection to either of these expen- declined entering upon a discussion of the constitutionditures. But when I ask this small sum, the gentleman al question, as to the power of Congress to make apobjects that it will take the money of Virginia and other propriations for this object, but opposed it on the ground States to be expended in Maine. And is not the money of its inexpediency. A like sum had now been appropriof Maine taken by the other appropriations of this bill? ated for many years, and no beneficial effect had resulted Has she not been taxed her full proportion for the ex- to the country. No general system was adopted, or ulti. penditures heretofore made for similar objects? Andmate object pursued. He denied that the act of 1824

Feb. 14, 1828.]

Internal Improvements,

(II. OF R

provided for any appropriation beyond that year. No now in progress, which were not more than half com works had been accomplished, and there was nothing pleted, and the question was, whether the House would to shew of the large sums expended, but maps and plats. withdraw the means of completing them. A discussion Mr. M. dwelt with emphasis upon the divided and dis- of the general policy of the plan, was out of place on an tressed state of the country. Those engaged in manu- appropriation bill. Whatever might be decided as to factures complained, and agriculturists were still worse carrying such a system of internal improvement into off. He insisted that this was not a proper time to ex. effect, these surveys were of great advantage to the pend $30,000 a year on plans and estimates. If the Go. American People. Should that system never be adopt. vernment had adopted any thing like a regular system ed, this mass of information could not fail to be useful. of operation, he could more willingly submit to such an The constitutional question of power did not fairly arise, expenditure. He disavowed all sectional feeling in this on a proposal to employ the Engineers already at the matter, but one thing was certain-not an Engineer had disposal of the War Department, in a particular manner. made his appearance in the State from which he came. Should the time ever arrive when we have more in the

Mr. P. P. BARBOUR supported the motion to strike Treasury than we know what to do with, the argument out. He declined entering on the constitutional ques of the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Barbour) might tion, having gone into it at large on former occasions. have some force. But the question now was, whether He adverted to the subject now, only to declare that no the House would arrest these surveys ? Mr. B. for one, change had taken place in his opinions on that point. would not do it. He would give the Administration the He resisted the appropriation on the ground of expe. sum now asked, and would hold them responsible for diency, anticipating the time (likely soon to arrive) its application. when the national debt should have been discharged, Mr. BARNEY said he felt no sickly sensibility on the and when the ten millions, now set apart as a sinking constitutional question, which had already been ably fund, would be at liberty to be applied to the object of and fully discussed, and which he considered as definiinternal improvements. He insisted that its employ. tively settled. The General Government entered no ment by the General Government would unsettle the State, even to make surveys, without the full consent balance of the Constitution, and destroy the salutary of that State. Where then could be the danger to State equilibrium between the General and State Govern- rights? He would go on and collect all the topographical ments. The power to employ so large a sum in works information possible. Then it would be easier to decide of this nature would enable the General Government to how the surplus should be applied when that happy mil. hold out to those States who deny the constitutional lenium arrived, to which the gentleman from Virginia power so to apply it, a constant and strong temptation to had alluded. If the Union was to be perpetuated, it would abandon their principles, and they must either do this be by providing facilities for the intercourse of its inhabi. against their conscience, or see these benefits lavished tants; and as to its dissolution, he so deeply abhorred the upon other States, while they were necessarily exclud. idea, ihat he could almost consent to make it death even ed. He objected to the measure on another ground, to speak of such a thing. Retrenchment might be popuwhich was, the enormous extension of patronage, which lar, but he would never consent, for the sake of any petty the disbursement of so many millions annually would saving, to crush the unfolding energies of this growing throw into the hands of the General Government. He empire, or nip them in the bud. He regretted the gen. referred to the effect of patronage in other Govern- eral pressure of which the gentleman from South Carolina ments, and particularly in England, the history of which (Mr. Mantin) had spoken as much as he could do, but he will show, that what the Stuart could not accomplish by thought the present plan one of the best ways to remove prerogative, had been effected in subsequent reigns by it. As to the neglect of that gentleman's State, be bepatronage. He implored the committee to pause be. lieved she had never asked and been refused. There fore they sanctioned a principle directly at war with the was no intention to debar Virginia, or any of the Southpolicy which rendered the States the supervisors and ern States, from their full proportion of these benefits. sentinels over the movements of the General Govern. Of the three important works which had yet been under. ment. The last ground be took was, that, as a very taken, they had had at least their proportion. He referlarge portion of the United States were known to dis- red to the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal, the Ohio sent from the power of the General Government to ap. Canal, and the Visinal Swamp Canal. The last of these ply the public money to objects of this description, it was now enjoyed by Virginia; it had not been forced upbehooved the majority of this House (and he believed on her, but she has received it, as he hoped, with gratithere was a small majority) who thought otherwise, to tude. The interests of the Southern States were precious pause and deliberate well before they sanctioned a sys- to the North, because they were identified with their tem of measures on which public sentiment was so As to patronage, he believed the great fountain of greatly divided.

He meant to use nothing like a it was to be found in this House. He believed the Remenace. He had not the remotest idea that the People presentatives here were almost always consulted. He whom he represented would rise in any sort of rebel- could say, for one, that he had obtained for his constitu• lion, or attempt, in the slightest degree, to disturb the ents their full share. Government, But he thought it the part of wisdom, Mr. B. then referred to the employment of the United especially in a Government that pail so much deference States' Engineers, in devising the plan for the Baltimore to public opinion, to act with the greatest caution, when rail road, and passed many commendations on their assithat opinion was so nearly upon an equipoise.

duity and skill. Mr. BUCHANAN expressed his dissent from the Mr. HAMILTON rose in support of the amendment. opinions avowed by the two gentlemen who had pre- He believed there were more surveys now in the Topoceded him. The true question ought to be distinctly graphical Bureau than could be carried into effect in half stated. The act of 1824 sanctioned the policy, not of a century, or, to speak within bounds, for twenty-five immediately entering upon a plan of internal improve years. Under the parental patronage of the gentleman ment, but of preparing for it, by, obtaining surveys, from Virginia, (Mr. MERCEn) who, he believed, was in plans, and estimates, in relation to the various roads and favor of every canal and every road in the country, procanals, that were required throughout the country. jects had accumulated which could not be completed The sum of $30,000 had been appropriated, not for a within that time. There was no need of this appropriasingle year, but for a specific purpose, which purpose tion to enable the Secretary of War to employ the Topohad not yet been accomplished. Many surveys were graphical Engineers, but he could tell the gentleman that

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