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SCHEDULE E.-SUGAR, MOLASSES, AND MANUFAC

TURES OF.

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS,
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Wednesday, January 15, 1913.

The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., Hon. Oscar W. Underwood (chairman) presiding.

Present with the chairman: Messrs. Harrison, Shackleford, Kitchin, James, Rainey, Dixon, Hull, Hammond, Palmer, Ansberry, Payne, Dalzell, Hill, Needham, and Fordney.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

Gentlemen, we have quite a long list of witnesses for this morning under Schedule E. Is there any way by which we could divide the time between the different sides wishing to be heard? [A pause without response.] If the witnesses prefer to just go through the list as we have them on the calendar we will proceed in that way, but we have another hearing this afternoon, Schedule H, and I thought we might allow four hours for Schedule E this morning if a division of time could be reached. [A pause without response.] Might we not allot a certain amount of time to each side, to be agreed upon, and thereby proceed with more satisfaction and get through in the same time?

Mr. R. F. BROUSSARD. Mr. Chairman, do I understand that the committee would like to hear this question in four hours?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; we have another schdule, being Schedule H, coming on this afternoon.

Mr. BROUSSARD. I scarcely believe that four hours will suffice to give those wishing to be heard an opportunity to go over this matter. There are several angles to this proposition, as I understand it; probably four angles to it. Of course, I do not presume to speak for some of the gentlemen present; but speaking particularly for the cane-sugar people, I think we would like to have more than one hour. We would like the committee to hear us for more than one hour. We will likely present only one witness, having purposely concentrated upon one person because we wanted a full and clear presentation of the matter, and a changing of witnesses breaks the continuity of the argument. I do not think he can present the Louisiana-Texas case in less than one hour, and probably not in that time, and we would like to have at least an hour and a quarter.

The CHAIRMAN. In this hearing we do not propose to hold witnesses down to the time assigned if there is reason to the contrary, because I know it is a difficult thing in a hearing of this kind for a man to make a statement in the time assigned, but I thought if we

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PARAGRAPHS 216-219-CANE SUGAR, ETC.

reached an agreement as to division of time some of these witnesses might be cut out. I am willing to go ahead on that basis. I think the gentleman you represent is the second man on the list, and he is pretty apt to be reached.

Mr. BROUSSARD. Yes; he is pretty apt to be reached, I take it.

PARAGRAPH 216.

Sugars not above number sixteen Dutch standard in color, tank bottoms, sirups of cane juice, melada, concentrated melada, concrete and concentrated molasses, testing by the polariscope not above seventy-five degrees, ninetyfive one-hundredths of one cent per pound, and for every additional degree shown by the polariscopic test, thirty-five one-thousandths of one cent per pound additional, and fractions of a degree in proportion; and on sugar above number sixteen Dutch standard in color, and on all sugar which has gone through a process of refining, one cent and ninety one-hundredths of one cent per pound; molasses testing not above forty degrees, twenty per centum ad valorem; testing above forty degrees and not above fifty-six degrees, three cents per gallon; testing above fifty-six degrees, six cents per gallon; sugar drainings and sugar sweepings shall be subject to duty as molasses or or sugar, as the case may be, according to polariscopic test.

PARAGRAPH 217.

Maple sugar and maple sirup, four cents per pound; glucose or grape sugar, one and one-half cents per pound; sugar cane in its natural state, or unmanufactured, twenty per centum ad valorem.

PARAGRAPH 218.

Saccharine, sixty-five cents per pound.

PARAGRAPH 219.

Sugar candy and all confectionery not specially provided for in this section valued at fifteen cents per pound or less, and on sugars after being refined, when tinctured, colored or in any way adulterated, four cents per pound and fifteen per centum ad valorem; valued at more than fifteen cents per pound, fifty per centum ad valorem. The weight and the value of the immediate coverings, other than the outer packing case or other covering, shall be included in the dutiable weight and the value of the merchandise.

CANE SUGAR, ETC.

TESTIMONY OF FRANK C. LOWRY, NEW YORK.

[Representing the Federal Sugar Refining Co., of New York, and the Committee of Wholesale Grocers formed to assist in obtaining cheaper sugars for consumers through the reduction of duties on raw and refined sugars.]

Mr. FORDNEY. Before Mr. Lowry begins, may I ask for information: I notice on the calendar the names of 13 gentlemen who wish to talk on sugar, and all of those whose names are shown on the fore part of the list, 9 out of the 13 are for free sugar. I would respectfully ask that the time to be occupied by this committee on the question of sugar be fairly divided.

The CHAIRMAN. I proposed to the gentlemen present when we began, and I believe before you came in, that there be a division of time, but had no response. I am willing to divide the time between the respective sides and let them arrange it to suit themselves, if that is agreeable to the witnesses here.

Mr. FORDNEY. Well, I think it would be only fair to give the beet and cane sugar men half the time occupied, and if there is to be a fixed or limited time in which they are to be heard on this subject I think that should be arranged before we start the hearing.

PARAGRAPHS 216-219-CANE SUGAR, ETC.

The CHAIRMAN. I am willing to let the hearings on this schedule run five hours if desired, but we can not run longer than that, and give two and one-half hours time to the men who oppose the duty and two and one-half hours to the men in favor of the duty, and divide the time allotted to those who favor the duty equally between the Louisiana people and the beet-sugar people.

Mr. FORDNEY. I would suggest that the representatives of the canesugar and beet-sugar men get together and fix the time between themselves.

The CHAIRMAN, If that is agreeable to the witnesses all right, but I do not want to make the witnesses do what they do not want to do, and unless it is agreed we will call the calendar. If it is agreed upon we will follow that agreement, to a total limit of five hours if necessary, instead of following the calendar.

Mr. BROUSSARD. I think an hour and a quarter will be satisfactory to the cane people. Of course, I am not speaking for the beet-sugar people.

The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen here representing the beet-sugar people, is that arrangement satisfactory?

Mr. FORDNEY. Mr. Hathaway or Mr. Baker or Mr. Oxnard will be able to say.

Mr. HENRY T. OXNARD. We do not think we can present our case if the Louisiana cane people are to have an hour and a quarter and we have only an hour and a quarter. We have brought a whole lot of witnesses-farmers-from the West to be heard, and an hour and a quarter is entirely too short a time for us.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Lowry, can you present your side of the case

in two hours?

Mr. LowRY. I can present my side of the case in 20 minutes if there are not too many questions.

The CHAIRMAN. I mean this, if the gentlemen representing your side are willing to take two hours instead of two hours and a half, we can give the other side three hours for the presentation of their case?

Mr. LowRY. Mr. Jamison, representing Arbuckle Bros., only wants a few minutes, and others only want a few minutes, and I expect that will be all right.

The CHAIRMAN. I will divide the time equally if there is any objection, but if the gentlemen who want to present their case against any duty will take two hours we will give the other side three hours? Mr. J. E. FREEMAN. As far as Mr. Atkins's statement is concerned it will be very brief, taking not over 20 minutes.

Mr. FORDNEY. What time will be given the beet and cane men? The CHAIRMAN. We have another schedule this afternoon. We will allow the Louisiana cane-sugar men an hour and a quarter, and the beet-sugar men an hour and three-quarters. Will that be satisfactory to you gentlemen representing the sugar side?

Mr. EDWIN F. ATKINS. I think that will be satisfactory.

The CHAIRMAN. We will ask you, Mr. Lowry, if you can do so to control the two hours on your side, if you desire to use that much time, and the man opposed to your side to take such time as he needs and yield the balance to those with him, and if any time is not needed, we will be glad to have it revert to the committee.

PARAGRAPHS 216-219-CANE SUGAR, ETC.

Mr. LOWRY. Yes; if we do not want two hours, we will yield it to the other side.

The CHAIRMAN. No; you are to have two hours for your side, and the other side is to have three hours, and if you do not want to dispose of a portion of your two hours the committee will take it back, because the committee has some other hearings this afternoon.

Mr. LowRY. I have just conferred with some of the representatives of the National Sugar Refining Co., and they say they only want a few minutes to justify their brief, and the Warner Sugar Refining Co. and the Arbuckle people say that besides what time I take there will be but few minutes required.

The CHAIRMAN. You know the gentlemen on your side?

Mr. LOWRY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you mind controlling the time of your side? Mr. LowRY. No, sir.

Mr. WILLIAM L. BASS. Where do I come in on this?

The CHAIRMAN. What do you represent?

Mr. FORDNEY. He is for free sugar?

Mr. BASS. No; I beg pardon.

Mr. FORDNEY. Well, you are for a lower duty on sugar, at least? Mr. BASS. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Lowry, you will see that Gov. Bass has a part of your time?

Mr. LOWRY. All right.

Mr. BASS. I would like to have an opportunity to address the

committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I will reserve 10 minutes for you.

Mr. EDWIN F. ATKINS. Do I understand that we come on this afternoon, or is that hearing on wines and spirits?

The CHAIRMAN. I will finish the sugar schedule first and then take up wines and spirits later, but I do not want to keep these people longer than I have to.

Now the arrangement is that Mr. Lowry and the men in favor of a reduction of this tariff shall have two hours, the cane-sugar people will have an hour and a quarter, which Mr. Broussard can control, and the beet-sugar people will have an hour and three-quarters, which Mr. Oxnard can control, Mr. Oxnard to put up such witnesses as he wants to unless he desires to yield to some one else. Will you take charge of that, Mr. Oxnard?

Mr. HENRY T. OXNARD. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Mr. Lowry, you will proceed.

Mr. LowRY. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I represent the Federal Sugar Refining Co., of New York, and the committee of wholesale grocers, formed about four years ago to assist in obtaining cheaper sugars for consumers through the reduction of duties on raw and refined sugars.

I fully appreciate that, so far as the tariff on sugar is concerned, little can be added to the information which is already a matter of public record, and at the disposal of the committee. Consequently, anything that is said at these hearings must necessarily be in the way of repetition.

I would first like to call the committee's attention to the fact that the United States is not dependent for its supply of sugar upon "for

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