a political effect was intended to be answered or not, he was not for it. He would say no more, except to ask for the ayes and noes.

A sufficient number rising in support of the call, the ayes and noes were ordered.

Mr. BUCHANAN said, I rise to express a sincere hope that the House may promptly decide this question. I fear, from the course which the debate has taken, that we may again find ourselves involved in a political contest. I call upon those gentlemen upon this Aoor, if there be any such, with whom my opinion has any influence, to avoid making this a party question. The House have already wasted sufficient time upon questions of that character. We have already withdrawn ourselves long enough from the public business of the nation, for the purpose of attending to the politics of the day.

[II. of R.

the Department has presented these documents in a manner to impose on the people, the committee might cast a censure on the Department; but the House owes it to the Department to print the information as it has been received. He thought it high time that we should proceed with the public business. He had come to the House this day in that expectation. Unless we violate all the rules and practice of the House, the order would be executed as it had been previously directed, without any change in the manner of doing it.

Mr. WRIGHT, of Ohio, who had obtained the papers reported by the Secretary of War, here proceeded to show that the numbers were marked on them in the or. der in which they ought to be published—when

Mr. WRIGHT then opened the document in his hand,

Mr. HAMILTON remarked that the gentleman from Ohio, [Mr. WRIGHT was right in his argument, but What is the true, the intrinsic nature of the question wrong in his data; because the numbering to which he now before the House? It is simply this Shall the do-referred, had not been made by the Secretary, but by cuments be printed with, or without, the report of the the Committee, who agreed with him [Mr. WRIGHT] as committee? What possible difficulty can arise in answer to the proper arrangement of the documents, ing this question? No gentleman has objected to printing the report. Whether the documents shall be at-marked by the Committee No. 1, and found, that, as retached to the report or not, both will be read by the People of the United States. Then, why detach them from each other? Let them go together. The question, however, is one of so trifling a character, that I should vote in the negative, rather than be instrumental in producing another protracted party debate.

The Committee on Military Affairs have been, in my opinion, unjustly censured, because they took possession of the documents before they were printed. But was not the order of the House to refer, equally powerful with the order to print? The committee had at least as much right to the possession of these documents as the printer. One gentleman may have wished that the printing might be the first step, while another desired that the reference might have the precedence. How, then, are the committee censurable? If the printing had been de- | layed too long, the House could and would have exercised a control over their committee.

ported by the Secretary of War, it was marked No. 6. Mr. WOODS thought a question of order might be raised on that point. He, however, would not raise it. It had been remarked by a gentleman, that these papers had been shuffled up by some individual; he did not im pute it to any member of the House. In what way did they come before the House? Were they not sealed up, and sent under cover to the Speaker?

The SPEAKER said he understood the gentleman from Pennsylvania as alluding to some person in the Department, and not to any member of the House. Mr. WOODS said he presumed he had a right to defend the Department.

The SPEAKER replied-" Certainly."

Mr. WOODS said, whatever might be the intention of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, the effect of his remarks was to implicate members of this House. The documents came first to the Speaker, and from him they If the House had wished the documents to be printed, were passed to the committee. They came from the without the commentary of the committee, they ought Secretary. He was responsible for every letter and every to have passed an order for printing simply. But at the figure which they contained, except any thing was added same time that we ordered the printing, we sent the do- since. He hoped that they would be printed as they were cuments to the committee. For what purpose? Cer-sent. He would hold him strictly responsible, and if he tainly that we might obtain their report: and now the only question is, whether the documents, and the report upon them, shall be printed together or separately? I shall vote that the commentary shall accompany the text; but yet I think it a matter of very little importance.

The only change which the committee have made in the order of the letters, is to place them in the order of their dates, and make the answer follow the letter to which it is a reply. No gentleman can wish to see the answer placed before the letter which gave birth to it. Mr. B. again expresssed a hope that this might not become a party question, and produce a party debate.

Mr. TAYLOR, in reply to the question which had been asked, as to what difference it made how the documents were printed, said that there were two distinct series of printing one of which embraces Executive documents, and the other Reports of Committees. At a future day, when this information should be sought for, the Executive documents would naturally be looked to. Should it be transferred to Reports from Committees, it would not be in its natural place. It does not now come before us as from the Executive Departments at all. The House had ordered that it should be printed as an Executive document, and as such it ought to be printed. Precedents had been referred to. One gentleman had referred to the case of the Vice President. In that case, the documents were matters collected as evidence, and formed a part of the Report. This is a very different matter. If

had made any attempt to impose upon the People, he would hold him up to meet the reprobation of the House, the committee, and the nation. We had heard much about arguments, and presenting the facts to the world with a gloss. From what gentleman had we heard it ? The House had been told by the gentleman from Ken. tucky that there was nothing for the friends of General Jackson to fear from the printing of the documents. All he had asked, was time to examine the documents. Af ter he had examined, he announced that they might be printed, that there was nothing for the friends of the individual to fear.

Mr. WICKLIFFE said he did not make any references as to the order of time, in which the documents were to be printed.

Mr. WOODS asked if there might not be as well a classification as to subject-matter, as time. There are several subjects embraced in these documents. Yet we are told they are shuffled up, and must be displaced. The papers are probably arranged as regards the different subjects. Would it not be as proper to publish in that order, as with reference to time? Gentlemen say it is necessary to the understanding of the documents, that they should be accompanied by a report-a report or who? Of the House? No. The report of-he meant nothing disrespectful--the friends of Gen. Jackson, and of his friends alone. Will the report go forth as an appendix to the documents-or will the documents

be merely an appendix to the report? He had every respect for the committee; but if he were compelled to sanction a report without examination, he would as soon take that of the Clerk, as that of a committee. He was not impugning the report. He might, when he had read it, be disposed to view it favorably. But, the report is the argument following the fact. Gentlemen here give no statement of the facts. It is an argument predicated on the facts. Let the documents go abroad, and if gentlemen wish to give the sanction of the House to the views contained in the report, let it not be laid on the table, but acted on. If we can do it without debate, be it so let us first make it our report, and then let it go; for the case of the Vice-President, which had been relied on, there had been nothing to print, until the report was made. Again, he wished to know if there were not in the resolution, documents asked to be print ed, which had not yet been sent from the department: he meant, papers or a letter from Governor Blount.

A call had been made on the Department for records on a particular subject. That call was modified. It embraced the widest scope, and the documents were sent to the committee; yet, now the committee ask to print with them one which was not called for. The correct course, in his opinion, was to let the whole be printed as •Executive documents. Let 6,000 copies be printed, if gentlemen please. Let them be circulated far and wide. Let the People know every thing. There will be no error in their decision. But we violate the rules of the House if the motion prevail as it is now offered. He would not wish to say that gentlemen wish to give the argument on one side, and to preclude those of the other. If it had been thought necessary to append the argument to the doccmen's, it should have been done, when the motion relative to the printing was originally put. It is now too late to travel back, and rescind an order of the

House.

[FEB. 11, 1828.

lution, that gentleman did not want any commentary or opinion from the Secretary, which might have shown this matter in its true light. 1, sir, am that gentleman, who then opposed it upon that ground. I said, then, that those calls upon the Secretaries, were new proceedings; a change in the custom of this House. That if the House wanted information, upon any subject connected with the Executive Departments, or any documents from either of the Departments, it was proper to call on the President, to lay then before us, and make him responsible for their truth and accuracy; this was the true course, and did comport more with the dignity of this House, than calling upon a subordinate officer.

It is this I meant, when I said I wanted the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I wanted nothing from the Secretary but the documents, and then members would know what to do with them, without the opinion of a Secretary. I do not want him to say what ought to be done, nor care I for what a Secretary thinks. We are responsible to the People, and acting as their representatives, we are to determine what ought to be done with all documents.

As long as I have been a member of this House, I have never seen the custom departed from, that when a paper was referred to a committee, and ordered to be printed, that it was managed as the committee should deem most expedient. The House, as a body, being unable to act upon every paper, they must, of necessity, empower their committees to first examine, and report on them. If the committee report that legislation is necessary, then the House, as such, will have to act in this case; the Committee on Military Affairs have reported upon the documents, but do not think any legislation necessary. It is now asked to print the report of the committee, with the documents, and let them remain in that form, only correcting the confusion of dates, produced by the improper nambering of the papers, perhaps in the De partment of War.

strange attitude do gentlemen reduce themselves who refuse it? What is the inevitable inference?

A gentleman from Rhode Island seems to complain, that the committee have had the papers to examine, and that, consequently, they have not been printed, though the House had previously ordered it; that the papers belonged to the House, and their order should have been obeyed. Motions to refer papers to committees, and print them, have often been made, and this has followed the common course of all others. Nor can I agree with the gentleman, that the House has any right to the papers, unless they discharge the committee from their farther consideration, or unless that committee report to the House.

Mr. FLOYD, of Virginia, rose and said, that he would detain the House but a short time with what little he The desire of the committee is to correct this confushould say on the subject. I cannot, said he, otherwise sion of dates, to the end, that a fair and correct underthan consider this debate as of a very singular character-standing of the documents may be had. To what a a character which I cannot understand. The friends of the Administration wish these documents printed, that they may have an opportunity of examining them for themselves, and thereby be enabled to form their own opinions; yet, in this very debate, they show us clearly that they have an opinion already formed, and have an intimate knowledge of those papers. How does this happen? I have been seeking with care for the opportunity of looking into these documents as soon as they should be presented to the House, but that opportunity has not occurred; other gentlemen have been more fortunate but how has it happened? We are told by a gentleman from New York, that the report of our own committee and the documents ought not to be printed together, because, in binding them up, the one will be among the Executive papers, and the other among the Reports of Committees. Is this the case? Were not these papers brought here in obedience to a call of this House? and were they not referred to this committee to examine and report thereon? This duty has been performed; and now, if I understand the matter, this is a report of a com mittee with its accompanying documents, and not Exe cutive papers, as they were not sent here by the Execu

tive.

One gentleman has told us these papers were sent here by the Secretary of the Department of War, upon his high responsibility. What is that responsibility? How is a Secretary, a mere creature of our law, intended as the President's clerk, to be responsible for this kind of intercourse? The gentleman from Ohio [Mr. WHITTLE BEY] seems to complain, by reminding us of the opposition made in the House, upon the adoption of that reso

One gentleman from Ohio said he would just as soon depend upon the report of the Clerk of this House, as of a committee; that remark does not require a reply. As to the confusion of dates, and the marking of those papers so as to lead to this confusion, I do not think, Mr. SPEAKER, that the Secretary is to blame; from the custom, which I regret to say, I am informed prevails in all the Departments, it is possible he never examined them, as I am informed the Secretaries, when required to furnish papers or documents, order one of their clerks to bring them to him, and when told that all are produced, to send them without examining them to Congress.

The committee ask that the report may be printed, and also the documents annexed, in such a way as to make the subject easily understood; the request is reasonable, and in accordance with the universal custom of this House, and why an objection has been made, and a wish to separate the report from the documents on which it is

founded, to me is inexplicable. They have reported the facts of the case only: we are not called on to legislate, then why object? I hope, however, the House will not depart from their usual course in such cases, and will adopt the resolution.

Mr. WOODS said, that when called on to sanction the report of a committee, without an opportunity of knowing the facts, as regards his own action on the subject, he would as soon take the report of the clerk, as any gentleman, or a committee.

Mr. FLOYD said that the committee had only report ed a statement of the facts, with a request that when the documents shall be printed, that statement might go with them. The committee have arranged the documents in the best order, and they ought to be printed as they are arranged.

Mr. REED said, the question now under discussion may at first sight appear of little consequence; but when we consider it in its effects and bearings, it will be found highly important. It is important, inasmuch as it changes the rules and usages of the House. These rules and usages are absolutely essential to our well being and success. They are not contained in the small book called Rules, &c. A few only of the general rules are to be found there. I believe it has always been a rule and usage of this House, whenever an executive report has been ordered to be printed, in the form in which it comes to this House, without mutilation, alteration, or transposition? We called some days since for certain information from the Executive-the War Department. It has been sent to this House, and ordered to be printed, and referred to a committee. The report from the War Department has not been printed; and now the proposition is, to print the report of the committee, and rescind the order for printing the report from the Secretary of War. We are told, indeed, that the report of the committee contains the Secretary's report, or rather that it is appended to it, unaltered except the transpositions of the letters.

[H. or R

port of the Secretary ought to be printed, and he ought to be responsible for it: it is due to him; it is due to ourselves; it is due to the people.

Mr. STORRS said, he did not think the motion of the gentleman from South Carolina did repeal the order of the House. That order was obligatory on the Clerk, and he was bound to carry it into effect. It could only be rescinded by another order of the House. It was of little consequence how the documents came into the House. The observations which had been made were immaterial, except the statement made by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, who spoke of documents surreptitiously arranged. He would ask the Clerk to read the list of the documents sent. [Here the Clerk read the list.] That list was in exact conformity with the practice of the Department for years. He referred to the documents sent to

the House on the subject of the Seminole war, in order to show that the papers or letters of one individual were placed together, and you were obliged to turn over many pages before you could get at the reply. There could be no impropriety, therefore in the present arrangement. The correspondence was probably taken from the book of letters, and the book of answers. The letters from the Department were classed together, and those to the Department were classed together; and when the gentleman from Pennsylvania used the term surreptitious respecting them, it was unjust and unmerited. The documents were received on the 30th of January, and were ordered, simultaneously, to be printed and referred to the committee. He did not complain that the committee had looked into the documents; the motion now is to print the documents, and the objection is, that the report is not the opinion of the House. The committee was entitled to the highest respect, both in a parliamentary and a personal sense, but their report was not the opinion of the House.

He objected to the motion to print, for the purposes of distribution. With that the House has nothing to do, the documents and the report will find their way to the Mr. Speaker, I hold the Executive responsible for people. The report will go as nothing more than the his conduct, and for his reports. By the course we are opinions of the gentlemen of the Military Committee, and about to adopt, unless the amendment prevails, we free he objected to that being appended to the documents. him from all responsibility. If we alter, change, or trans. He thought it would be more proper to pause, and allow pose the report, it is no longer the report of the Execu- time for the report, which was laid on the table to be read. tive; it is the report of a committee of this House. The Nothing accompanies the report to show if it has the augentleman from Pennsylvania, [Mr. BUCHANAN] observed thority of the House. But, publishing it in connexion that it was of little consequence which report was printed, with the documents, gives a semi-official authority to it. viz. the report of the committee, or the report of the Without receiving the sanction of the House, it is sent Executive; but he preferred the report of the commit-out to work its effects. It would be taken by those who tee, and he deprecates another party discussion. He will do me the justice to acknowledge that I have taken no part in the discussion alluded to. If the gentleman esteems it of so little importance, I beg him to continue the usages of the House, and print the report of the Secretary. I am in favor of the proposed amendment, because it so far changes the present motion, which goes to rescind the order for printing the Secretary's report, as to allow the report to be printed according to the order which took place some days ago. port should be printed as it came from him; and after that is done, I will vote to print the report of the com. mittee; and if they think it necessary, by reference, to append the report of the Secretary to their own, let it be done; and, if twice printed, it is a small evil compared with the evil which will result from the course we are about to pursue. Besides, since this subject has been discussed, it has been repeatedly suggested that it would be well to print 6,000 copies of the committee's report. Let the usual number, 1,000 of each, be printed. As I before observed, I am now in favor of the amendment, because I think it conformable to the uniform usage of this House. The usages and wholesome regulations of this House ought not to be dispensed with lightly. The re

are not very conversant with our mode of proceeding, that this is the opinion of the House. In that view, he thought it proper to move to separate the report from the documents. He would not discuss the question at large; nor, in any thing that he had said, did he desire to pro duce any political effect. Any charge of that kind should not apply to him. Let the documents be printed: they would have their due effect, and they could have no more. No gentlemen here without examination could be preThe Secretary's re-pared to vote upon the subject. He had formed some opinion of his own, contrary to the report, but he would not trust himself to go into a statement of that opinion. A regard to Parliamentary order had induced him to offer his amendment. The first order was yet in full force, and the order which now embraces the documents is unnecessary. It was the duty of the Clerk to carry the first order into effect. He hoped this House would proceed in parliamentary order, and not depart from its usual practice.

Mr. HAYNES said, that he should not address the House on the present occasion, but for the extraordinary doctrine advanced by an honorable gentleman from New York, on his right, [Mr. STORRS] and an honorable gen. tleman from the same State, [Mr. TAYLOR] on the other

H. OF R.]

Militia Courts Martial.

| [FEB. 11, 1828.

not vote to connect these, until that also should be before the House.

side of the House. It is contended by the gentleman on the other side, [Mr. TAYLOR] that the documents in this case ought not to be appended to the report, because Mr. HAMILTON said, that he was happy to find that they constitute an executive communication, which ought the gentleman from Ohio, [Mr. SLOANE] was disposed to to be printed only with the executive papers communica- attach so much value to a report from the Committee on ted to this House, and this position is in substance sup Military Affairs, as to intimate that he desired that that ported by his colleague, [Mr. STORRS.] He did not pre- committee should report on the correspondence between tend to much legislative experience; he certainly had Gen. Jackson and the Secretary of War, during the late much less than the gentleman referred to. But he would war. He seemed to consider his call as a sort of trumphazard the assertion, without the fear of contradiction, card, for it would be recollected by the House, that the that this was the first occasion on which it was ever con- other day, he called very emphatically upon him [Mr. H.] tended, that the subject-matter of a report should be se- to know whether the Committee on Military Affairs meant parated from that report. Reference had been made to to make a report on the documents which form the suba case about which he was peculiarly sensitive, and but ject-matter of the present discussion. No sooner had he for his sensibility to which he might not probably now [Mr. II. ] answered the gentleman in the affirmative, than address the House, and in consequence of which sensibili- the gentleman sprung up as quick as lightning, or rather ty, his recollection might be presumed to be correct. It like a snipe flushed up from a fen.-[The SPEAKER here was the Georgia report of the last session. It is true, that intimated that Mr. HAMILTON was not in order.] Mr. H. a portion of the documents was printed, previous to the assured the Speaker that he meant nothing disrespectful printing of that report, and it is equally true, that the to the gentleman, but it would be recollected with what same documents were again printed, and appended to the extraordinary quickness and animation the gentleman had report. But it has been pronounced to be irregular, to thrown this second call on the table. Now, for one, he print an executive communication with the report of a desired to inform that gentleman, that these movements, committee. What is the fact in the Georgia report re- characterized even by such ardor, produced no appre ferred to Upon reference to that report, it will be found hension with him, that he might continue to call, and call that three communications from the President of the Uni- without affecting what seemed to be his object, which he ted States are among the documents published with it. thought could be better answered by submitting a resoBut it has been said, that the report and documents should lution at once, that the Secretary of State be requested not be published together, because of the previous reso- to write the life of A. Jackson, from materials to be furlution of the House, directing the printing of the docu-nished by the Secretary of War. He did not know that ments alone. In point of time, the reference to the committee has priority. What is the fact? When these documents were presented to the House, they were refer red to the Military Committee, and ordered to be print. ed. He therefore contended that printing the documents now, and appending them to the report, would be a substantial compliance with the resolution referred to. If the Georgia documents, which were previously printed, were printed a second time, and appended to the report, it would seem to be peculiarly proper to print the report and documents together, in the present case, where there have as yet been no documents printed. Gen. tlemen need not be so sensitive on this occasion, for he could assure them, that hundreds and thousands of the American people will read the report, who will not take the trouble to wade through the documents. But an objection has been made to the arrangement of the documents proposed by the committee. What, Sir, is the fact? The letter from Governor Blount, of December, 1813, is numbered six in the series, when the answer to that letter is numbered one, as they were arranged at the Department of War. Certainly, Sir, the papers should be so-arranged that no communication should precede that to which it is the answer.

Mr. SPRAGUE asked if the resolution contained a call for a document not at present before the House? Mr. HAMILTON replied in the negative. It was a mere reference to a document.

Mr. WOODS explained. He had heard the resolution | but indistinctly, and did not wish to make a mis-state

ment.

Mr. SLOANE rose to say but a single word. When he put a question to the Chairman of the Military Commitfee, a few days since, he was told that the committee would make a report. He had then laid a resolution on the table, calling for other documents, equally important to a clear understanding of the case, and he had hoped that the committee would not have reported until the information thus called for was before them. The information had not yet been received; it might be expected by to-morrow or the next day. He did not wish to vote for appending the report to the documents without having also appended the information now expected. He could

he [Mr. H.] would be opposed to such a resolution, as the people would apply to this biography their wholesome criticism, at last.

Mr. MARVIN put a question to the Speaker, as to the effect of a motion to lay the motion to print on the table whether, in such case, the first order of the House would not go into effect,

The SPEAKER said, that if such a motion should prevail, the documents only would be printed.

Mr. MARVIN then moved to lay the motion to print on the table.

Mr. CAMBRELENG asked for the ayes and noes on this question; and a sufficient number rising, the ayes and noes were ordered.

Mr. MARVIN then, at the suggestion of some friends, withdrew his motion.

Mr. BROWN, of New Hampshire, said he understood if the amendment did not succeed, it would be the duty of the Clerk to print the documents, and append them to the report. He thought it was due to the Secretary of War, that the documents should be printed as he had sent them. He was charged with shuffling them, and it was due to him, that the public should know whether he had done any thing which was improper. It was also due to the Committee that they should be printed in the form in which they had reported them. They ought to be printed in both forms. If the resolution were to remain in the present shape, he must vote for the amendment, out of regard to the Secretary of War. But if the House would print the documents in both forms, justice would be done, both to the Secretary and to the committee. He was about to offer a motion to amend, but the SPEAK. ER said it was not in order.

Mr. BEECHER rose to make a few observations, as to the order of printing. The documents came from the Secretary of War, and it was necessary to dispose of them. In this case, they were sent to the Committee on Military Affairs. He supposed the order for printing was for the purpose of letting the House know what the na. ture of the communication was, in order that they may act upon it. The House now does not know what the documents are. He knew not how to act. The report was laid on the table, and a resolution is offered to adopt