Is there any inconvenience in stating what they are ?—We have declined republishing Alexander Barclay's "Ship of Fools," a folio volume of great rarity and high price. Our probable demand would not have been more than for 100 copies at the price of twelve guineas each. The delivery of eleven copies to the public libraries decided us against entering into the speculation. There is another work which we have declined printing, materially from the pressure of the eleven copies, which is a work of great value: it is "A Series of Views relating to the Architectural Antiquities of Normandy," by Mr. Cotman, of Yarmouth; it is a work peculiarly interesting to antiquaries and to architects, but to few other classes of society; it relates to the Architectural Antiquities of Normandy.

Do you think, from your experience as a bookseller, that a considerable number of purchasers of that class of books, sufficient, if they had continued in the market, to have supported that branch of publication, have been taken out of the market by this gratuitous supply of books to the public libraries?-Very materially: I think so,

The Committee understand that you were the undertakers of the reprint of that very important old work of English poetry, called "The Mirror for Magistrates," which was printed in three volumes quarto?—Yes, we were.

Was not the loss of eleven copies upon that work a very considerable loss?—It was a loss of 110 guineas; and we should not have been able to have supplied the copies to the public libraries if the work had not been five or six years printing, in consequence of which some of the subscribers had declined.

Do you not think that the supply to the public libraries of these eleven copies materially damps the curiosity and wish to purchase of private purchasers ?—Yes.

The Committee would wish to ask you this question, namely, Whether, in treating for a reprint of any work, you would not refuse considerable improvements for the purpose of preventing the delivery of the eleven copies to the public libraries ?—I would.

For instance, if a law book was offered to you for reprinting in a new edition, in which much important new matter might be introduced, and many additional references cited in various parts of the book, would you say to the author, "I cannot allow that; I cannot take the book upon these terms; for, in that case, I shall be liable to deliver the eleven copies"?—I should.

materially to prevent the

Then, in that respect, you think the existing act operates improvement of books in successive editions?—It would so. Do you know any thing about Mr. Dibdin's Decameron ? whole impression has been sold?-If they are not sold, they are so nearly sold, that they are difficult to be got.

Do you know whether the

Do you consider that Mr. Dibdin has lost the full benefit of the value of the eleven copies delivered to the libraries?—Yes.

Do you recollect the price of the book?-Nine guineas.

What did he sell it to the trade for?-At different prices, eight, nine, and ten guineas, I believe.

Might it be taken safely at an average of eight guineas?—I think so.

Then he lost eighty-eight guineas?—Yes.

Mr. JOHN MARTIN, called in; and examined.

Are you not engaged in the publication of Mr. Dodwell's Scenes and Monuments of Greece?-We are.

What would be the price of a complete copy of that work?-About thirty guineas. What will the engraving of the plates and the colouring of them cost you ?-About 3,000l.

What would be the amount of the eleven copies of that work to be supplied to the public libraries at the selling prices ?-The selling price would be 330 guineas.

And what would be the trade price?-The trade price will be about 2751.

If the copies were to go directly from the publisher to the subscriber, or the public, what price would the publisher get for each copy?-Those copies which we ourselves receive subscriptions for, produce us the full price; for such as are taken by other publishers, we of course have only the trade price.

Should you expect any of the eleven libraries to be subscribers to this work, if the copies were not delivered in pursuance of this legal obligation ?-I should expect they would. I see by a reference to a book on the same subject, Mr. Mills's "Magna Græcia," that there are entered amongst the subscribers the University Libraries of Cambridge, Trinity College, Dublin, and several other Colleges.

Does

Does the placing eleven copies in these eleven libraries, in your opinion, benefit or injure the sale of the work?-I should conceive that any work so expensive as this would be materially injured by such delivery. It would have an injurious tendency.

If the law which requires the delivery of eleven copies to the public libraries continues, do you propose to publish the work without letter-press?-If that provision for the delivery continues, we shall publish it without letter-press.

Was any, and what application made to you on the part of the French Government to have this work to publish at Paris?-The proposition was made to the author when he was in Paris: and on his return home, the work was shown at the request of the French Institute to the French Princes, to the Officers of the French Government, and a great many others, and by them an offer was made on the part of the French Government to publish the plates in four volumes folio, each volume to contain a hundred plates, with accompanying letter-press; but the author wishing it to be published in this country, declined the proposition.

Would it have been more beneficial to the author to have published at Paris?—I should conceive it would certainly.

Is the proposed letter-press considerable in extent ?—It will make, as near as we can tell, about a large folio leaf of two pages to each plate.

What would be the least possible cost of eleven copies of this work, if only the paper and working, and colouring of the plates, be considered?-The lowest price would be 144%. the actual cost, not including the engraving.

That sum would not include any proportion of the engraving ?-No.

From your experience in the trade, what is your opinion as to the delivery of these eleven copies? What effect would the delivery of these copies produce?—It would be extremely injurious.

The class of books that you publish are mostly of the expensive kind?—At present they have been.

And very much adorned with plates?-They are; and we are undertaking, at this moment, several others of the same kind.

In all these works, do you not consider the delivery of the eleven copies a very serious load?-I do.

Mr. CHARLES STOTHARD, called in; and examined.

You are publishing the Monumental Effigies of Great Britain ?—Yes.

The price is twenty-eight guineas the large paper, and twenty guineas the small ?Yes.

Do you publish the work on your own account?-Certainly.

Do you conceive that the delivery of the eleven copies to the public libraries is a great grievance?-A very great one indeed; for I believe, that if I had known it when I commenced the work, I should not have begun it.

Do you conceive, that subject to the delivery of the eleven copies that work could have been published by a bookseller?-No, certainly not, nor at its present price. Indeed at its present price it is impossible, when the work is completed, that I can sell it at that price. In order to sell it, I must raise it one quarter above its present price. You are employed at present by the Society of Antiquaries, in making a correct copy of the Bayeux Tapestry?—Yes.

Do you consider that that work of your's could ever be published by any private individual, subject to the delivery of the eleven copies?-I think no one would undertake it.

There are letter-press observations accompanying the work?-Yes, and the letterpress is more expensive, perhaps, than the plates, from its decorations.

Is it decorated with wood-cuts?—No, with vignettes on copper-plate. Indeed the letter-press is illuminated, that is to say, it is painted and gilt.

And in that painted gilt state are the copies delivered to the Universities ?—They have never been demanded yet, but I expect it. The work is nothing without it-it cannot go out of my hands without it is so done.

You have stated that the delivery of eleven copies would have deterred you from undertaking the Monumental Effigies; would the delivery of five copies have deterred you?-1 should think it a very great tax upon me. I should think it no protection from price.

Should it have deterred you from beginning the publication of them?-I should think it would. I should have taken it into consideration, because, though many copies may remain some years on my hands, I know the whole must eventually sell.

SAMUEL

SAMUEL LYSONS, Esq., called in; and examined.

For twenty-five years I have been preparing for publication an extensive work of the Roman Antiquities of England, entitled "Reliquiæ Britannico Romanæ," consisting of more than one hundred and sixty plates in folio, many of them forty inches by twenty-three, on which work I have already expended 6,000l. From the nature of this work, which requires that the greater part of the plates should be coloured, to render them intelligible, it is not probable that more than a hundred copies will ever be completed; and if the whole of that number should be sold, at fifty guineas a copy, I should not be reimbursed my expences. In the two first volumes of this work already published, I have given a short letter-press description of the plates; but finding that under the last Act of Parliament for the encouragement of learning, my continuing to give such printed explanations would subject me to the heavy tax of eleven copies of my work for the public libraries, and deprive me of several of my purchasers, some of those libraries having bought my two first volumes, I have determined to omit any letter-press, and have engraved my title pages and list of plates. I am convinced that few books of antiquities or natural history, consisting chiefly of plates which are attended with a very heavy expence, and especially those which require to be coloured, can be published in this country with letter-press, if the editors are thereby liable to be taxed with the delivery of the eleven copies for the public libraries, and that the publishers will be under the necessity either of omitting any printed description, or having them printed on the Continent, where much would be saved in the article of paper alone, the price of the larger sorts of which in this country is extremely high in consequence of the heavy duty on them. I give twelve guineas per ream for the smallest paper which I use for this work, and seventeen guineas for the larger, which I am obliged to employ on account of the size of some of the plates. (The witness here exhibited some plates for the inspection of the committee.) I produce these prints for the purpose of showing that they could not be explained without colours; I now exhibit one of the title pages, which the committee will observe is engraved, for it is necessary in order to evade the present Act that every thing should be engraved. These plates represent Mosaic pavements discovered in this country, and are extremely laborious. I have given seven or eight shillings for printing a single print, and colouring it. If I could sell twenty-five copies of this work in England, I should be satisfied.

Has the delay, hitherto, of publishing any of these plates since the passing of the Act of 1814, been occasioned by that Act?-Certainly, for I have been preparing to adapt my work according to the provisions of that Act; and to avoid the obligation of delivering the eleven copies I have been obliged to have the subsequent plates published without any letter-press, and simply to give an engraved list of the plates, so as to prevent the claim on the part of the libraries.

You had intended to give descriptions of the plates in letter-press?—Yes.

But you have been obliged to alter that intention, in consequence of the late Act?— Certainly.

The volume that was published prior to the Act was accompanied by letter-press to each plate?—Yes.

What proportion of letter-press was there to each plate-To one, there were two leaves; and to another, the Antiquities of Woodchester, there were many, I think there were twenty or more pages.

The discovery of these Roman Antiquities has cost you many years labour and attention?-A period of twenty-five years.

The committee would presume that you feel it to be impossible that any thing like the same interest would attach to these plates without the explanation of letter-press to each plate?-Certainly not; I intend hereafter to print some letter-press, probably on the Continent, and import it.

Which letter-press you would otherwise have printed in this country?—Yes, with the work.

You are keeper of the Records of the Tower of London, and greatly acquainted with works of English history in every department; do you consider that the eleven copies, demandable by the public libraries, are a great discouragement to such persons as would otherwise adventure the publication of ancient English documents?—I can hardly venture an opinion upon that; generally speaking, it is a very great discouragement to literature; to books of a certain expense, or to books of which very many large impressions are printed, and that are likely to have an extensive sale, it might be of very little importance; but certainly in large quarto volumes, attended with heavy expenses, and which take many years before their expenses are repaid, the giving up eleven copies in the first instance is certainly a heavy taxation.

Do

Do you not think that the publication of these larger collections is of great national importance?-Unquestionably.

Are not the authors or compilers of such publications very inadequately paid?—I believe they are.

And therefore does not the demand of eleven copies press upon them with peculiar hardship?—I should suppose it does, certainly.

THOMAS PLATT, Esq. called in; and examined.

Are you one of the trustees under Dr. Sibthorpe's will?-One of the executors. Are there any instructions in his will relative to the publication of the Flora Græca? -There are as to the mode in which the work was to be published. He devised an estate to the University of Oxford, upon trust, that the rents should be applied, first, in the publication of two works, to be intituled "Flora Græca," and "Prodomus Flora Græcia ;" the Flora Græca to consist of ten folio volumes, each volume to consist of 100 coloured plates, to be coloured from a collection of drawings which he had caused to be made for the purpose, and which he afterwards gives to the University of Oxford; and, these two works being completed and published, he directs the rents to be applied in the establishment of a Professorship of Rural Economy, 2007, of the rents to be paid annually to the professor for his salary, and the remainder to purchase books for the professor's library.

In what manner does the provision, in the Copyright Act, for the delivery of eleven copies, operate upon this work?—I never yet have been called upon myself for any copy. I understand that the British Museum lately intimated a claim to Messrs. Payne and Foss, who deliver the work merely as agents, who referred to me; but no application bas since been made to me. The work does not go into the hands of a bookseller in the common way; I pay for every thing as it is done, and send the work to the bookseller, who has only a commission for the delivery, otherwise the subscribers would be loaded with an additional and unnecessary expense. The fact is, that I cannot deliver any copy except to purchasers. If this work was to come under the provisions of the Copyright Act, it could not go on at the rate at which I have hitherto paid for each copy, as far as it has gone, including the copper-plates; and taking the number prepared at 50 copies, the whole work, when complete in 10 volumes, will actually cost above 3004, each copy, exclusive of the editing; including the editing, it would cost 3501. each copy. The rents of the estate, which I have hitherto received from the University, have very little exceeded 2001. a year, which are dedicated to defray part of the expenses of publication. The number of copies prepared have been 50, all of which are not yet sold.

You colour them as there is a demand for them?-We coloured 50 copies, presuming we should sell so many, from the number of subscribers we had, and we have sold about 40. We have coloured some additional plates since, in order to make some parts on hand complete, certain of the subscribers having died, or retired from the country, or refused to continue their subscriptions. It is so expensive, that it can of course fall into the hands of very few. As the estate has hitherto produced not more than 2001. a year, the expense of eleven copies of the work would amount to sixteen years' rent of the estate; and of course the giving eleven copies be an insurmountable difficulty. I could not, as executor, pursue it; I should throw it upon the hands of the University. According to your experience in the publication of this work of Dr. Sibthorpe, do you not conceive that the gratuitous delivery of eleven copies would render any work of that magnitude entirely impossible to be published by any individual, with expectation of covering his expenses?—Yes, I do verily believe it; a work of half that value I should consider it impossible to publish; the right of exacting eleven copies appears to me an extinguisher upon splendid and expensive works.

The same rule applies, in a less degree, to other works of the same nature, but less expensive?-Beyond all doubt it does; it is apparent that there are several of the bodies to whom we might justly look for subscriptions for this work; few private individuals can be expected to purchase it, but it must find its way to great and public libraries.

Mr. THOMAS FISHER, called in; and examined.

You have a work in hand of which a certain limited number were subscribed for, concerning some ancient paintings and charters at Stratford-upon-Avon ?—I have. The price being twelve and eight guineas?—Yes.

You

You have been seven years employed in the execution of that work ?—The drawings were made in the year 1804; they were executed in polyautographic (a mode of printing from tablets of stone), between that and in 1807, when the first part was published, consisting of a title, and eight coloured prints from ancient paintings; the second part came out above two years afterwards, consisting of seven prints from paintings, and two copper plates; the third part was published in 1812, consisting of one double plate of a painting, and other plates (copper) to the amount of fourteen, with one sheet of letter-press. The whole of the paintings were coloured by my own hand, excepting a few impressions of one, in which I endeavoured to avail myself of the assistance of colourers; but I found their work unsatisfactory to me, and discontinued the employ. ment of them.

Was this work, so commenced by you, discontinued in consequence of the decision subjecting you to the delivery of eleven copies-Yes; printing any work of the polyautographic press, conceiving that mode of printing to be but little understood, may I be at liberty to explain it to the honourable committee. Instead of copper plates or types, a tablet of stone is produced by the polyautographic printer, with steel pens and a prepared ink; a drawing is made upon the stone which he takes away, and has a method of fixing the drawing, so as to produce or strike off any number of copies. The number upon which I determined for my work was 120; the stone was then cleaned and brought again, and I proceeded with the second, and so on through the series of plates; my fixed number was 120 impressions.

You were, therefore, unable to continue your work to your subscribers, in consequence of being liable to this demand?—In consequence of but having 120 copies of each polyautographic print, when I found by a decision in the Court of King's Bench, that I was liable to eleven actions at law for the recovery of eleven copies, by eleven privileged libraries, I conceived it would be impossible for me to comply with that demand, and I discontinued the work.

Mr. SAMUEL BROOKE, called in; and examined.

What is your line of business?—Printing and publishing.
In what peculiar line?-Particularly in the law line.

Have you experienced any inconvenience or injury from the provisions of the Copyright Act?—I am very much aggrieved by the necessity of delivering eleven copies of the works which I publish, principally law works, on which it falls very hard.

In what manner do you conceive law works are particularly affected by the delivery of the eleven copies?-The temporary nature of their matter makes it necessary to confine their editions to a comparatively small number of copies, and the expenses of printing and editing are so great, that the deduction of eleven copies is a very serious evil, as attaching to every new edition.

Mr. ROBERT HARDING EVANS, called in; and examined.

In very expensive works, particularly of scientific illustration, can you speak to the operation of the Act of 1814?—I conceive it to be a very heavy and very grievous imposition upon the bookseller, and such as is not levied by any other country in Europe. Have you found from your own experience, that that Act has operated to the discou ragement of any literary production of the description to which you refer ?—Certainly. But can you specify any instance in which this Act has effected this discouragement of which you are speaking; has it, in your opinion, operated to prevent the publication of any literary work which would be useful to the public?-Certainly, it has prevented the printing and publishing of several editions of the Classics, which were about to be printed at the time the Act passed, but which were laid aside by the booksellers in consequence.

Specify a few of those books to which you allude, that happened to be within your recollection? For instance, Damm's " Lexicon to Homer and Pindar," and a reprint of" Brotier Tacitus." These were laid aside.

Do you happen to recollect any other instance in which a classical work had been projected, but laid aside in consequence of this Act?-I cannot immediately call to memory the names of particular books, as the order to attend the committee was not served upon me until yesterday evening, and I have not had an opportunity of referring to my lists. I know this, that the two Universities have not entered any copy of the Classics since the passing of this Act, which shows, I think, that they have felt it to be a grievance.

In