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I would go to Halifax. He said that he was agent of the foreign legion, and asked me whether I had called to receive information about it; I told him I had; he then told me that commissions were to be issued for men who would go on there, and he supposed that I would get one; I then gave him my address, and he requested me to call again, and he would let me know when the first expedition started—to stop in every day and see him, and see what was going on; I did so. He engaged me to go on there for the purpose of obtaining a commission.

Q. State the conversation fully, that occurred between him and you, in reference to your going there?

A. Well, we had a great many conversations; almost every day we talked about it.

Q. When did you first agree with him to go to Halifax for the purpose of obtaining a commission ? State the conversation that then took place.

A. I did not agree on the first interview; I told him I would think about it.

Q. What did he say at that interview ?
A. He promised me a commission.
Q. Did he ask you to go with that view ?
A. Yes, sir, he did.
Q. And you told him you would think about it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What next took place ?

Ă. After two or three days, he asked me if I had made up my mind; I told him yes, I would go to Halifax and see what took place when I got there. He then intended to send me with Captain Strobel, but I concluded not to go; there were not men enough going, and I preferred to hear from him and hear how he got on when he got there. It was on a Sunday when he started, and I did not go with him.

Q. What did you do from the Sunday up to the time you started ?
A. On Monday, Hertz was in New York.
Q. Who had charge of the office while he was gone to New York?

A. Bosschart and myself were there, and we took several persons down who came in there.

Q. Did you do that at the request of Hertz?
A. We did at his request.
Q. Who was Bosschart acting for?
A. I understood he was acting for Hertz.
Q. Did you raise any men in that time?
A. About twenty-five or thirty.
Q. What did you do with them?

A. The day before we started they all came there, and we gave them tickets and told them to be down to the New York boat next morning. I went down there after I received instructions from Hertz where to go to in New York.

Q. What instructions did you receive from him?

A. He told me to go to Delmonico's hotel, and call and see Bucknell. We started, and did not get any further than the navy yard, when we were arrested.

Q. You took the men?
A. I did not take them; they were down on the boat.

Q. They were in your command?
A. I had no real command; I was considered as leader of the party.
Q. By arrangement with Hertz?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many had you?

A. About thirty when we started. I only saw twelve when the arrest was made. I think there were thirty. It was on a Wednesday. I am not sure whether it was on Wednesday following the Sunday that Strobel went on with men.

Q. Did you see the men go on the boat?

A. I did, sir, and told several of them to hurry up, or they would lose their passage. I took the tickets from them after we had started down the river.

Q. What boat were you on board ?

A. The Delaware or Sanford-one of the New York line; the Delaware, I think.

Q. (Tickets shown witness, same as copied on page 138.) State whether those are the tickets used ?

A. I do not know; tickets like those the men had; and after they got on the boat, the captain told me to muster them and take them up.

Q. They got those tickets from Mr. Hertz and yourself, you have said ; where did you get the tickets you gave them?

A. From Mr. Hertz; and when the tickets were taken from them, I gave them other tickets which the clerk of the boat gave me.

Q. Who settled with the boat for those tickets?
A. I do not know.
Q. You started in the boat and were going down the river ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What happened then ?

Ă. When I mustered them and found there were so few, I was looking for the rest, when Mr. Jenkins came up to me and told me he would like to see me—that he had a warrant for me, and the marshal would be up alongside in a steamboat in a few minutes ; I told him, very well. They searched me for papers, and brought me up to the office; I do not recollect the names of any of the company.

Q. Had a you a muster-roll ?
A, I had.
Q. Where is it?
A. I rather think I tore it up when I was arrested.

Q. (Book containing the names of the men who enlisted at Hertz's office shown.) Do you know that ?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is it?

Å. I cannot say exactly whether it is a part of Strobel's company or mine-I rather think it is mine ; several of the men who had enlisted to go with Strobel's company did not go with him, but went with me, and this list is part of Strobel's and part of mine, I think: I do not know whose writing it is in; Mr. Hertz gave me the list, and I suppose he wrote it; I have seen the book in Mr. Hertz's office

Q. (Paper shown witness containing a list of names.) Do you know if that was the list of your company?

A. I think it was, to the best of my knowledge, and I think I made those marks on it. I had no list besides this.

Q. (Another paper shown witness similar to the first.) Is that a copy of this?

A. Yes, sir, I expect so.

Mr. Van Dyke here offered in evidence the list of names which the witness identified as containing the names of the members of this company, from which some of the bills had been drawn. The list is read in evidence.

Q. Do you recollect the names of James Johnson or Peter Muhn? A. I do not.

Q. Do you recollect Mr. Bucknell coming into the office with the handbills?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you know whether Mr. Hertz took them, and what he did with them. (Bill containing the British coat-of-arms shown witness, same as copied on page 114.) Is that the bill ?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did Mr. Hertz do with them?

A. Several were stuck up around the office and on the outside, and several were sent to be distributed. I understood they were sent around to the lager-beer saloons.

Q. What became of the bills?
A. Mr. Bucknell took some away, and the rest were burned.
Q. How did that happen?

A. I went in one morning and saw some excitement; they were shoving the papers in the stove, and they told me that Mr. Bucknell had taken the rest of them away with him.

Q. Did you ever see Mr. Perkins in the office ?
A. No, sir.

Q. What did Mr. Hertz tell you was to be the destination of the men you took ?

A. Halifax.
Q. What were they to do there?

Ă. To enlist in the foreign legion, if they were found physically competent.

Q. Was there a physician at the office for the pnrpose of examining men that came there?

A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know what he was paid for getting these men ?
A. I do not know the exact agreement.
Q. Did you ever see any telegraphing or letters written by Mr.
Hertz ?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. State what the telegraph contained ?

A. I saw him write a telegraphic despatch to Bucknell ; he told him to wait.

Q. Did you see any letter written by Hertz?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. State what it contained ?
Mr. Cuyler objected.

Q. To whom was the letter addressed ?
A. To Mr. Bucknell.

Mr. Bucknell was here recalled.
Q. Have you got that letter written by Mr. Hertz?
A. I never remember his sending one.
Q. Did you ever receive the telegraphic despatch he sent you?
A. Not that I can remember.

Mr. Budd's examination continued.
Q. State what was in that letter.
Mr. Cuyler objected.
Q. Where did you last see the letter ?
A. On Mr. Hertz's desk.
Q. Who was at the desk at the time?
A. Mr. Hertz himself; he was writing at the time.
Q. Have

you seen it since ?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know whether it was ever put in the post office?
A. No, sir.

By Mr. Cuyler. Have you any knowledge of it, except that it was a simple sheet of paper on which he was writing ?

A. Yes, sir, he informed me of the nature of it, and read part of it to me.

Q. By Mr. Van Dyke. Did he give that letter to you after it was written?

A. No, sir.
Q. You have no knowledge of what became of it?
A. No, sir.

Q. Go on and state, to the best of your knowledge and recollection, what it was that Mr. Hertz wrote on that sheet of paper.

A. Mr. Hertz was writing, and I was waiting in the outer office; he asked me how I spelt my name, and told me that he was writing about me, and stating that I was coming on next day; I then went around to where he was writing, and he again asked me how I spelt my name, and I looked over his shoulder and saw he was writing to the agent in New York that I was coming on with men, and he hoped, he wrote, that he would keep his word and send him on money at the rate of four dollars for superior brands, and two dollars for inferior brands.

Q. What did he mean by superior and inferior brands? did he gire you to understand ?

A. No, sir, he did not. I understood this perfectly ; it meant men. Q. Did you see him writing any telegraphic despatch ?

Ă. I saw him write a telegraph, asking whether I should come on next day or not; I forget who took it to the office.

Q. Was there anything in it besides that?

A. He did not use my name; he asked whether he should send twenty or thirty parcels next day.

Q. Do you know whether he got an answer?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the answer ?

A. “Yes.” It was signed “B." I think it was “Yes, all right." It was in the affirmative. He then told me to get ready to go next morning.

Q. Did he say anything to you in reference to getting directions in New York as to what to do?

A. He told me I would get directions for money or assistance from the agent at Delmonico's hotel to proceed on to Halifax.

Q. Did he mention the name of the person there?
A. He asked me whether I would know Bucknell again, and I told
Q. Did Hertz give you any money before you left?
A. No, sir.
Q. Had you any conversation with him after your arrest?

him yes.

A. Oh, yes.

Q. What was it?
A. He said so much, I cannot state it.

Q. State what he said in reference to this recruiting business after you were arrested.

A. After they had arrested me the marshal went on shore and arrested Hertz, at his office, and they kept us in the Delaware a couple of hours, until they had preparations made for our reception. The deputy marshal kept the boat out, and when we came up to the office I found Mr. Hertz here. He said, “ All right; I will bail you out;' and I did not think anything more about it until I was committed.

Q. Did he say anything about remaining quiet ?

A. Not then; not until the latter part, when I had some difficulty in procuring bail.

Q. What did he say to you then?

A. He said keep quiet; I will have you out. He afterwards said something about the matter ; it was to keep my mouth shut, it would be all right; I would be well paid for it.

Cross-examined by Mr. Cuyler.
Q. When was it you were arrested ?

A. I cannot exactly remember the day, but it is very well known; I think it was in the latter part of March.

Q. Was there any previous communication between yourself and the United States officers before the arrest?

A. None whatever.

Q. This arrest was not, then, in consequence of any conversation between yourself and the authorities, directly or indirectly?

A. No, sir.
Q. Your arrest was a complete surprise to yourself?
A. Yes, sir, to me; I was totally unprepared for it.

Q. Where did the conversation take place when he told you to keep your mouth shut?

A. Once down in the prison, and once in the commissioner's office. Q. By Mr. Remak. In what country were you born ?

Ă. I decline answering that question, as it implicates myself. I have been a lvised to decline answering it.

Q. By Mr. Van Dyke. Did you ever state under oath where you were born?

Ex. Doc. 35-11

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