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Q. By Mr. Cuyler. Do I understand you to say distinctly that to answer the question, where you were born, would involve you in a criminal prosecution ?
A. No, sir ; but to answer whether I am a citizen or not would involve me in a prosecution.
Q. By Mr. Remak. Have you not been arrested and held to bail before the United States commissioner Heazlitt, on the charge of having retained and hired men for the foreign service?
A. I believe so; that is the charge on which I was arrested and held to bail for a further hearing.
Q. And were you not, on the 28th of March, 1855, a defendant before commissioner Heazlitt ; that was, the day you were arrested?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you not turn state's evidence on the 28th of March, against Hertz ?
A. I believe that was the first day I gave evidence.
Q. Did you not say before the United States commissioner that Hertz had promised you money in case you would keep your mouth shut?
A. I did so at that time.
Q. Did you not receive that money because you were in very destitute circumstances ?
A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. You stated in your examination in chief that Strobel introduced you to Hertz as an agent of the English government; why did you not say so before the United States commissioner ?
A. I said so ; I do not know whether I used the exact words, but to the same sense.
Q. It is here, in the published report of the proceedings, that you said, “I was introduced to Hertz about the 15th of March, by Mr. Strobel; was introduced to Hertz as the person who would give me all the information about organizing the foreign legion in Nova Scotia.” Did you not say that?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You said to-day that you were introduced to him as the agent of the English government ?
A. For that purpose.
Q. Did you or did you not state before the United States commis sioner that Hertz was introduced to you as the agent for the English government? You say now that he was introduced to you as the agent of the English government?
A. He was introduced to me as agent appointed in this city by the government for whom the foreign legion was to be raised.
Q. You said that he was introduced to you there as the person who gave the information ?
A. In that capacity.
Q. Did you not employ the word agent?
Q. Did you not say before the United States commissioner that it was left optional to any person coming into the office whether he would go to Halifax or not, or what he would do there?
A. I said that, of course, it was left optional with the recruits to go to Halifax, but after they got there force was to be used to induce them to enlist.
Q. Did you then state to the United States commissioner that Hertz was the agent to enlist those persons for foreign service?
A. I did not say so.
Q. Did you not state to the United States commissioner that Hertz sent men to Halifax, and it was immaterial to him what they were going to do there?
A. I do recollect that Hertz sent them to Halifax for the purpose of being enlisted in the foreign legion ; of course, he had nothing to do with them after they got there.
Q. Do you remember the 31st of March, when Richard Vaux was your counsel, and when Benjamin Rush made that great speech ; were not you a defendant at the beginning of that period ?
A. I do not know.
Mr. Van Dyke. There is no dispute about it. He was a defendant, and was discharged by the commissioner by my direction.
Mr. Remak. It is for the jury to know; I desire to know whether or not the witness, on the 31st of March, was a defendant, and had made
up his mind to turn state's evidence at the time? Mr. Van Dyke. I discharged him for the purpose of using him as a witness.
Mr. Remak. I desire the answer of the witness.
Witness. I think I made up my mind; I think so ; I am not positive.
Q. Did not Mr. Hertz say to you that he had no power whatever to give coinmissions ?
A. He said he had not power to issue commissions here.
A. On some occasions. On the first occasion he was present during only the first part of the conversation.
Q. Who else was present ?
A. After I was informed that he was the general agent of the English government, I did.
Q. Had you a desire to enlist in foreign service ?
A. No, sir, I was not going to enlist; I was to receive a commission, not to enlist.
Q. And you say Hertz did not promise you any commission at all ? A. I did not say so. I said he promised me that the fact of my going on there would insure me a commission when I got there.
Q. He had not power to give one ?
Ă. To give to those men I was going to take on, to get their passage. Nothing else was given to the men.
Q. You state, I think, that able-bodied men could be attested in Halifax, if they proved physically competent?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear Mr. Hertz say at any time that “physically competent” men would be received at Halifax?
A. No, sir, not these exact words; he has said, if they were sound, and has asked me if they were all right.
Q. Why did you not say that before the United States commissioner? A. I suppose
I was not asked ; I do not know the reason I did not. Q. Did not your examination before the United States commissioner last for some time—for two hours ? A. I do not know: it lasted for some time; I could not exactly say
; what time.
Q. Were not you asked at the time all you knew about it?
A. I was, but I may have forgotten some particulars; I had heard so much that I could not remember exactly all.
Q. How comes it that you remember it now, and not then ?
A. There is some conversation which I related then that I can not remember now.
Q. Who have you had conversations with in the meantime about this proceeding—that is, from the 31st of March to this 23d of September?
A. With a great many persons with whom I am acquainted ; I merely talked the matter over.
Q. Were not you very partial to carrying on the war in Europe against Russia, and for that reason you wanted a commission ?
A. I do not know, sir; I never remember expressing my sentiments; I wanted to go there to have a fight, and I did not care which side I went on.
Q. Have you not changed since that time in regard to the war in Europe?
A. No, sir, not in the least.
Mr. Van Dyke here stated, that as the attorney for the defence (Mr. Remak) had seen fit, in order to impeach the testimony of Mr. Budd, to read a part of his testimony before the United States commissioner, in justice to Mr. Budd, he deemed it proper, in corroboration of the testimony of the witness, to read the whole of the testimony before the commissioner, that the jury might see that there is no discrepancy
in the two statements. (Mr. Budd's testimony before United States commissioner Heazlitt is here read by Mr. V.)
John Jacob Bosschart, sworn. Examined by Mr. Van Dyke.
A I do not know exactly whether I got acquainted with him at my own house or first at his office, No. 68 South Third street. I think it was at my house. I was in the habit of attending his office during the month of March.
Q. State all that took place between you and him, and between him and other persons, in relation to enlisting for the foreign legion ?
A. I was first made acquainted with the business by Mr. Leob. He told me that Mr. Hertz had entered into the business of recruiting for the British foreign legion. Some time afterwards, Dr. Biell, who was bording with me at the time, told me about it, and I soon after saw an advertisement in the German Democrat, Pennsylvanian, and Ledger, that they wanted men for the British foreign legion; that every one who chose to go to No. 68 South Third street would learn the particulars. Dr. Biell and Aschenfeldt went down there, and I went too, to see what was going on; I saw the officers and men going there, and spoke to Mr. Hertz about this foreign legion, and about their pay and commissions. Some of them signed their names in the book, and some of them were taken down by Hertz himself.
Q. What was the character of the conversation which took place between Mr. Hertz and the men when they came up there?
A. The men came in and generally asked if that was the recruiting office, or office to enlist men for the foreign legion; the reply generally was that that was no recruiting office, and that they could not be enlisted there, but if they chose to go to Halifax they might be enlisted there; then he showed them the handbills, which stated that $30 bounty was given, and $8 a month to the men ; he said that it was in his power to give them a commission.
Q. (The handbill shown witness containing British coat-of-arms, already published, page 114.) Is this the kind of handbill which he showed them?
A. Yes, sir.
A. They wanted to go to Halifax to serve in the foreign legionthat is, the men who came to the office.
Q. Did he engage them to go there for that purpose ?
Q. And they told him that that was their intention when they got there?
A. Yes, sir, they told him that.
A. I was there every day from the beginning of the business until we were arrested.
Q. Do you recollect any physician who examined the men ?
Q. Do you know what Mr. Hertz was to get for sending on these men ?
A. No, sir.
Ă. I heard Hertz talk frequently about Howe, but cannot recollect distinctly that he said that Howe employed him.
Q. Did Hertz, in speaking of the manner in which he was employed to conduct this business, speak of Howe as being connected with his being employed ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did Mr. Hertz ever say anything to you about Mr. Crampton having employed him ?
A. He told me he had seen Mr. Crampton on the subject.
A. He did not say what had taken place between him and Mr. Crampton-not that I recollect.
Q. You recollect the departure of Captain Strobel and his company?
Q. Do you know whether he went to New York to make arrangements for sending that company from New York to Boston ?
A. That company started from here on Sunday morning, at 10 o'clock, and Mr. Hertz went to New York on Sunday night, in the half-past one o'clock train, to make arrangements to see that the men got off from New York; he returned to this city on Monday night or Tuesday morning ; I saw him on Tuesday morning again in the office.
Q. While he was away who had charge of the office ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And those men who were enlisted during the absence of Hertz, on Monday, were engaged by you at the direction of Hertz ?
A. Yes, sir ; I took the names on a piece of paper as directed, and